A “Sexuality/Relationships” section?

[Space_Man]

Just brainstorming here…but, throughout B.U.S. (especially on Main), I regularly see all kinds of different threads relating to sexuality & intimate relationship issues. Might a distinct section for such discussion be useful—maybe a “members only” area like the Debate section is? I suspect such a section would actually see a significant amount of traffic…no?

Any thoughts?

[gui hong]

You don't go into details on why you would want such a board on BUS.

However, and I'm not speaking for Deb but just as the admin who's around at the moment, there is no such board because BUS is focused on self-injury, not sex and relationships. There are plenty of sites for relationships and sexuality already, and we've done well with keeping such posts on Main where they can be seen by the most people.

Also, it would be a nightmare to moderate and all sorts of age issues would come up, not to mention keeping it non-explicit per the guidelines of the board.

In short, don't want to go there

gui

[sine nomine]

yeah, me neither, to be honest. i would rather see people talking about relationship issues that are related to self-harm on the board wher eit's most appropriate. mainf or a lot of things, place for things that seem more private, life after for things related to that, arc for over-30 things, and f/f for partners' issues. just like i don't like the idea of boards for specific mental illnesses, i don't really like the idea of a sexuality board that's standing on its own. if there's some compelling reason, i might reconsider, but it would have to be *really* compelling.

deb

[Space_Man]

You don't go into details on why you would want such a board on BUS.

In very basic terms: primarily in the interest of organizing & compartmentalizing; it would be a housekeeping issue.

there is no such board because BUS is focused on self-injury, not sex and relationships. There are plenty of sites for relationships and sexuality already…

But, the exact same argument could be made for the creation of a distinct Spirituality section… or a Debating section…or a Random Weirdness section . Sorry—I have absolutely no intention of being snide or confrontational, but…do you see my point? We could easily make the argument that the aforementioned sections have little to do with a direct “focus on self-injury”…and yet, they seem to have become integral parts of the board, regardless.

…we've done well with keeping such posts on Main where they can be seen by the most people.

And there is certainly nothing wrong with that. But every so often, relationship-related threads pop-up outside of Main. Actually, if one of the goals is to have such posts “where they can be seen by the most people,” a distinct section for them might be a good way to accomplish that.

…Also, it would be a nightmare to moderate and all sorts of age issues would come up, not to mention keeping it non-explicit per the guidelines of the board.

Yet, in one sense, I would think/hope that the posts themselves wouldn’t be much different than the relationship posts that are out there right now. Having a distinct section for them, would NOT be license to start posting inappropriate things.

In another sense, however, some members might have a need to post things of a more sexual/intimate nature…and while it might not be anyone’s place to forbid such posts, we can certainly mandate that they be kept non-explicit, and perhaps subject-marked with something like: “ADULT CONTENT” or “SEXUAL CONTENT.” The section itself could likewise contain such warnings (that some posts may contain content of a sexual/adult nature).

Again, merely providing a section to house all such posts would not give people free rein to start doing inappropriate things. And I, for one, have enough faith in my fellow B.U.S. members to behave themselves!
___________________

…i would rather see people talking about relationship issues that are related to self-harm on the board wher eit's most appropriate. mainf or a lot of things, place for things that seem more private, life after for things related to that, arc for over-30 things, and f/f for partners' issues.

And some people may continue to do that…but I suspect the majority of B.U.S. members would gravitate to such a section. Who knows?

…just like i don't like the idea of boards for specific mental illnesses, i don't really like the idea of a sexuality board that's standing on its own.

No, I don’t like the concept of boards for specific mental illnesses either…those would seem to isolate people from one-another. Conversely, I thought that a specific Relationships/Sexuality board would actually be a place to come together…after all, none of us lives in a vacuum; we all have relationships in our lives…

… if there's some compelling reason, i might reconsider, but it would have to be *really* compelling.

How’m I doin’ so far?!?!?

[ChaseThisLight]

Just my $0.02...(just as notmardy)

I think that a sexuality board could potentially be kind of a hazard to mod...keeping in mind that what one person posts isn't graphic to them, but could be to someone else that reads it...there is a lot of gray area in sex related issues...also I think because not everyone is..."legal" that poses another issue...unless it is set as a private board and a requirement to join is to state that you are in fact 18 (which is legal age in the US, where the board is run from). And I think Spam could get to be an issue too... I'm not too sold on the idea, even given your explanation Space_Man..there are a lot of other boards that offer something similar to what you want....

[sine nomine]

not very well. one of the problems of compartmentalizing is that it fractures the community into subcommunities, and i'm not sure we need mroe of that.

debates was started because people wanted a place they could talk about current events and politics, subjects we really didn't want on the main board because they tend to be divisive.

the debates forum has several important characteristics: it is controlled-access, which keeps out the trolls and allows people who don't like conflict to not have to deal with it. because it's a forum controlled by usergroup access, we are able to more easily enforce the no personal attacks rule; if someone persists we can bar them from the forum.

the spirituality forum was rather controversial when it was started. we kicked the idea around for a long time, and finally it was decided to create a separate space for people to talk about spiritual issues and how those affect self-harm. this was mostly because people who wanted to talk about spiriitual issues on the main board felt unsafe bringing them up there. they were afraid of offending others and afraid of gettign angry replies or getting into arguments. again, there used to be a strong bias aagainst talking about religion on the main board, and the spirituality forum was created.

there's not the same consitions around relationship issues. and i agree that a sexuality/relationships forum would be a major headache to moderate. i just don't want the baord to go there, so we're not going to.

deb

[Laura]

Historically RW grew out of Distractions, which split from a forum called "Coping and Distractions" - the original intent was completely on-topic for an SI support board.

Debates is sort of off-topic, but not entirely since a lot of us have issues with invalidation, and learning how to disagree respectfully is good for that. It's separate because debates do upset people, and encourage trolls.

Spirituality was thought over long and hard before it became a forum, and here again the point was that some of us wanted to talk about SI in terms of how it interacted with our faith, but some find spiritual issues triggery and sometimes it starts flame wars.

(Speaking here as Laura not as admin) there are times when I wish there wasn't so much relationship stuff on Main. Actually, all I wish is that the subject lines gave more clue as to the content - I don't mean sex spoilers so much as... well, when I've not been in a relationship for some years, sometimes reading about someone elses boyfriend/girlfriend dilemmas doesn't do much for my mood

But, I feel that creation of a separate forum does tend to legitimise posting of things related to that forum but not to SI. With Spirituality this has happened, but doesn't seem to be a problem. But I'd be concerned if people began making more posts about sexuality that weren't in some way related to their mental health issues. I guess I'm worried that there would be posts for showing off, posts for titillation, generally TMI stuff ...

Even if not that, then posts generally that maybe aren't right for us to have here. Our youngest members are 13. Right now I have no qualms about showing BUS to people (if they know about my SI, and I am confident they won't make a habit of reading my posts). I'd like to feel that I could show it to a mother of a 13 year old and be able to justify what goes on here.

That's just my thoughts.
Laura

[Space_Man]

Wow, there was a brief flurry of response while I was away!

...i just don't want the baord to go there, so we're not going to.

...But this would seem to indicate that there would be little point in my responding any further, since the decision has already been made.

Well, thanks for responding everyone.

[sine nomine]

if you can come up with a compelling reason, i'm willing to listen to it. right now, i don't see a compelling reason for it, and i see a lot of reasons that it would be a problem. i'm not trying to shut you down; you made a request, you explained why you thought it was a good idea, and i disagreed.

deb

[Space_Man]

i'm not trying to shut you down; you made a request, you explained why you thought it was a good idea, and i disagreed.

Sorry, I misunderstood; I thought you had decided against it, and that the discussion was over…
_________________

what one person posts isn't graphic to them, but could be to someone else that reads it...there is a lot of gray area in sex related issues...

I guess—not being a mod or an admin—I’m being too naive about this. Again, we have such “sex-related” threads occasionally floating about B.U.S. now. I’m just talking about putting all relationship/sexuality-types of threads in one place. But, to my mind, the content of the threads would still be the same type of stuff that you see on Main on any given day. And there would—of course—be some clear guidelines for posts in such a section… Tell me, do threads that contain sexual content/discussion tend to generate a lot of complaints?

also I think because not everyone is..."legal" that poses another issue...unless it is set as a private board and a requirement to join is to state that you are in fact 18 (which is legal age in the US, where the board is run from).

Admittedly, that would be tricky. And, in pondering your point, I’m not sure it would be “fair” to make it a restricted section (like Debates) based on age, only because so many of the relationship/sexuality posts that you see on Main seem to come from 15 to 18 year olds. It doesn’t seem fair to shut them out of a place that they could probably really use.

..there are a lot of other boards that offer something similar to what you want....

But, yet again, I’m not proposing that we suddenly allow posts that deal with relationship/sexuality issues—as those types of posts are already being made—I’m merely suggesting that we give such posts their own section. I would think that would actually make such posts easier to moderate…no?
________________________

(Speaking here as Laura not as admin) there are times when I wish there wasn't so much relationship stuff on Main.

And a distinct section for relationship issues would certainly help alleviate such things…

I'd be concerned if people began making more posts about sexuality that weren't in some way related to their mental health issues. I guess I'm worried that there would be posts for showing off, posts for titillation, generally TMI stuff ...

See, that’s a tough one. On the one hand, I would say: Just clarify in the section’s ground rules that such posts (for “titillation” etc.) were forbidden, and would be locked… On the other hand, I don’t know the extent to which people would use such a section for the less serious side of relationship/sexuality issues—much like posts in Distractions or Random Weirdness. Allowing for such silliness might be a good vent for some people. Tough call, but yeah, it probably isn’t a bad idea to establish the tone of such a section before anything else…

Even if not that, then posts generally that maybe aren't right for us to have here. Our youngest members are 13…I'd like to feel that I could show it to a mother of a 13 year old and be able to justify what goes on here.

But, as I’ve said, there are relationship/sexuality-related posts out on Main right now—viewable by any 13-year old member on this board. Yes, if my idea were instituted, all such threads would then be housed within a distinct section, but—again—to my mind, that would actually make such posts much easier to moderate…although, in my ignorance, I could certainly be wrong about that!

[Jomomma]

I can see your point in wanting such a place but what aboutthose that would have no access to the bord if it were age restricted?
Many people read but don't post and get just as much out of the board.

If I have questions about relationships I post where I feel comfortable and where I know my question matters.

We do have a debates forum as well as a spirituality forum but these same topics do occaionally pop up on main or elsewhere if the question or topic would work better in a larger forum.

If we were to create a place just for relationships and restircted it by age I would not have the opportunity to get an opinion from those that are of a younger age and I would not be able to get as wide a range of opinions which many times is what is sought.

I believe that questions about relationships are valid but having a segrigated place for such posts seems a bit much.

[sine nomine]

i still don't find your reasons compelling. it's still not something i think would benefit the board.

you know, whenever we get into a discussion with you, it seems like a few things tend to happen. one is the "i'm not an admin or a mod..." statements. i'm not sure that whether you're an admin or mod is relevant, and some people could read it as sarcasm.

the other thing is that sometimes conversations with you seem never to end. i felt a bit manipulated by your statement about the conversation being ended. i felt as though i had to prove that i was being fair, and i didn't like the feeling. in some ways, it's almost passive-aggressive. i felt the same way when you were pushing for debating to be allowed in the spirituality forum.

i understand that you think this is a good idea, but it's just not something that i think would fit into the board well. in order to fragment the board in the way this proposed forum would, i'd have to have an extremely good reason. so far, i haven't seen one. it sucks when you have what seems like a good idea and other people don't agree, but learning to deal with that is important.

deb

[Space_Man]

I can see your point in wanting such a place but what aboutthose that would have no access to the bord if it were age restricted? If we were to create a place just for relationships and restircted it by age I would not have the opportunity to get an opinion from those that are of a younger age and I would not be able to get as wide a range of opinions which many times is what is sought.

You are preaching to the choir with me! The more I think about it, the more I think that having an age restriction on such a section would be a bad idea…

If I have questions about relationships I post where I feel comfortable and where I know my question matters. We do have a debates forum as well as a spirituality forum but these same topics do occasionally pop up on main or elsewhere if the question or topic would work better in a larger forum.

Yeah, I understand…and I’m not at all suggesting that if someone were to post a relationship question in another section that their post would need to instantly be moved to the new Relationships section.

I believe that questions about relationships are valid but having a segrigated place for such posts seems a bit much.

Again, bottom line: it’s an organizational issue.

I kinda like responding to posts that deal with relationship issues…and, to be honest, I first came up with this idea one day in the process of searching through posts on Main to find any recent relationship-related posts. Now, I think there would be several other significant benefits to having a distinct Relationships/Sexuality section...but that is how/why I first came up with the idea.

[Space_Man]

i still don't find your reasons compelling. it's still not something i think would benefit the board.

This is actually all that needed to be said…but yet, you continued on into more personal territory, which probably would have been more appropriately handled through PM. However, since you have voiced your concerns about me within this open post, I feel like I need to defend myself within the same setting.

…one is the "i'm not an admin or a mod..." statements. i'm not sure that whether you're an admin or mod is relevant, and some people could read it as sarcasm.

For what its worth, such comments are not intended as “sarcasm.” Decisions of any significance on this board are made by moderators or administrators—not by members. It is merely my intention to admit that—despite what I may think should be done—the decision is not mine to make. Ironically, I actually make those statements with a nod of respect towards the moderators & administrators…

…the other thing is that sometimes conversations with you seem never to end. i felt a bit manipulated by your statement about the conversation being ended.

Interesting. As I tried to express a few posts back, I had initially interpreted your comment as indicating that: 1.) you had considered my suggestion, but decided it was not something that you wanted to try, and 2.) that the discussion was therefore pretty much over. Apparently, that initial interpretation (on my part) was correct. So, I’m not sure why you then came back and gave me the opportunity to continue rambling. I was prepared to drop it the first time…yes, I thought the decision was made a bit abruptly, but—here it comes: I’m not an administrator, and I would have bowed to your authority on the matter the first time.

… i felt as though i had to prove that i was being fair, and i didn't like the feeling.

I’m sorry that I caused you to feel this way.

… in some ways, it's almost passive-aggressive. i felt the same way when you were pushing for debating to be allowed in the spirituality forum.

My apologies. Yes, I tend to be rather passive/aggressive—I am ever so ashamed and embarrassed that it apparently surfaces here on B.U.S., as well as IRL.

… it sucks when you have what seems like a good idea and other people don't agree, but learning to deal with that is important.

You know, I tried to weather your “passive/aggressive” assessment of my personality without any return fire…but I take this comment as being just plain condescending if not outright insulting. However, I think I will pass on the opportunity to respond, and just let it go.

[Proximity]

Decisions of any significance on this board are made by moderators or administrators—not by members.

Space_Man - when it comes right down to it, decisions of any significance on this board are made by deb. Not by admins or mods.
That's because when it comes right down to it, BUS belongs to Deb.
It's a place that she gives us to have a community, but the space is hers.

yes, I thought the decision was made a bit abruptly, but—here it comes: I’m not an administrator, and I would have bowed to your authority on the matter the first time.

If it helps at all to know it, .. this decision is one that has been made about a million times already, so that's probably why it sounds like it was done quickly.
This isn't the first time that the idea of a board for sex and relationships has come up (really!) and it probably won't be the last
I think it's cool that Deb will still actually listen to reasons to have one, .. but the reasons for and against are pretty well-covered territory.

When I think about it, my disinclination to the idea comes from a couple places

1.) I see the "compartmentalization" of BUS to be a problem, not a good thing. Trying to bring unity to a community that's spread out like BUS is, now, is a challenging thing. Main is the place where that unity happens more than any other place. (Just look at the numbers of posts in the columns in the index.) I don't like the idea of additional forums that drag traffic off main.
I am more pleased with some of the sub-forums than with others .. but that's personal taste .. I do think that the ones that are there serve specific purposes, which I'll go into, if you want, but I'll just guess that they're clear, to save time.

2.) What Laura said about "posts for showing off, posts for titillation, generally TMI stuff ... " This is a big concern.
I know you're not a mod or an admin (gentle laughter, of the friendly sort) .. think like one for a minute, OK? Here's the problem. You have a whole forum of posts that talk about sex (and relationships). For each thread you have the original poster, the people who read it, and the people who reply. I guarentee you that no matter how good our intentions, or how carefully moderated such a forum would be, with a set of rules that were water-tight and magic .. somewhere in there, you would get either titillation, showing off, or TMI sorts of things.
Even if it's not intended to be read in such a way, it might be read in such a way, it might be responded to in that light, or users might enter into pm conversations with one another based off ot titillation, showing off, or TMI stuff..
And how are you going to point and say, "this thread is OK, this thread is BAD."
It's not that it's a fine line, it's that it's a line that is way way way to wide.
There are things that are clearly on one side or another, but the gray area is huge.

3.) saftey and liability .. BUS is open to people 13 and up. For a sexuality forum, do you ask people to discuss sexuality and keep the content pretty PG 13? Do you confirm the ages of the posters in the forum (the honor system? or do we want to ask for photocoppies of ID!?!) or do you set up a system of triggers to warn younger people away from more sexually graphic posts?
I don't know about you, but when I was 13, I wasn't that good at not looking at things with big red "NO" signs on them. If I was on a forum like that, and I knew that one click away, people that I knew and respected were discussing a topic they thought I was too young to read ..
well I would go read it.
But this isn't even the half of it .. say that we keep the sex content down, or that somehow younger people are not allowed on ..
What about sexual predators? Yes, they exist. I'm not saying that we have a lot of sexual predators on BUS, but just like anywhere else, BUS can have this problem, too. The majority of people in our community are vulnerable in one way or another, AND BUS IS THE PLACE THEY COME TO DISCUSS THAT VULNERABILITY. The idea of adding a relationships and sexuality forum is worrysome to me because I think it would be the focus for a lot of possible badness. In the past we have had people on the site who are pretty clearly here to look for a partner .. they weren't necessarily bad people, but the consistant response is "BUS is not a dating service". Yes, some people who meet here develop strong feelings for one another, BUS has been the originator of a lot of friendships, and even a few romantic relationships ...
BUT - even if it's not a *bad* thing to find love this way, it's not what BUS is for .. and it's not something that I feel like we should promote. I think that specific concentrated discussion of relationships and sex could not help but promote such things.

I wouldn't take the rejection of the idea too personally. It's not really about you, you know?
If I brought it up, deb would have said the same thing to me. Hell, I might have brought it up, I can't remember, it's quite possible that I once stood on the other side of this issue.

But this is how I see it now .. (and no, it's not because of any sort of weird deb/admin/mod conspiracy whereby we are all required to agree with her I just happen to think she's right.)

prox.
[inadream]

[Space_Man]

…decisions of any significance on this board are made by deb…BUS belongs to Deb…but the space is hers.

Yes… Which, of course, essentially means that she is accountable to no one… Interesting…

…If it helps at all to know it, .. When I think about it, my disinclination to the idea comes from a couple places…

Thank you. That explanation was detailed, thoughtful, and delivered in a respectful manner. I only wish that yours had been one of the first responses to my thread…

…I wouldn't take the rejection of the idea too personally. It's not really about you, you know?

No worries—it wasn’t the rejection of the idea that I took personally…

[Jomomma]

…decisions of any significance on this board are made by deb…BUS belongs to Deb…but the space is hers.

Yes… Which, of course, essentially means that she is accountable to no one… Interesting…

While I generally try to stay out of these kinds of thing I feel like i need to say something here.
This sounded a bit harsh.
While she may own the board, this does nto make her above any of the rules that have been set forth..
She asks people what they think about the board and she has never ignored a request by a user when it comes to idea for the board.
She may not agree with whatever is said but she allows everyone to have an oportunity to share thei opinions in a safe place where personal attacks are not allowed

[mama]

I'm finally feeling a bit compelled to post here. I've been a member of this board for a long time, five years to be exact, and I've seen a lot of changes occur.

What Prox says about this being deb's board is true, she does OWN it. However, if I'm not mistaken, whenever there have been major changes or forums added, she has talked to ALL bussers about the changes and gotten their input. Now, that doesn't necessarily that she abided by the *consensus* of the members (anyone remember the big debate over the private family/friends forun?). Sometimes, what any of us may see as critical or important to *ourselves* or the board may not be that critical or important in the overall scheme of things.

Quite frankly, a "sexuality/relationships" forum could very well possibly be a nightmare to moderate and you'd have to have more mods there because of the nature/content of the posts.

Carolyn

[Space_Man]

This sounded a bit harsh.

It is a statement of fact; a description of a basic reality of this web board. Interpreting it as “harsh” is a subjective determination.

She asks people what they think about the board and she has never ignored a request by a user when it comes to idea for the board. She may not agree with whatever is said but she allows everyone to have an oportunity to share thei opinions...

...whenever there have been major changes or forums added, she has talked to ALL bussers about the changes and gotten their input. Now, that doesn't necessarily that she abided by the *consensus* of the members (anyone remember the big debate over the private family/friends forun?). Sometimes, what any of us may see as critical or important to *ourselves* or the board may not be that critical or important in the overall scheme of things.

Quite frankly, a "sexuality/relationships" forum could very well possibly be a nightmare to moderate...

Just to be clear on this point: I’m done with the initial subject of this post–I could now completely care-less about the creation of a Relationships section.

...in a place where personal attacks are not allowed

...and this I would prefer to address with you through PM–if you wish to...

[dreams]

Space_man

Please don’t take this as aggressive in any way it is merely a reply to the topic of this post and not to any personal argument or grievance you may have.

In your post you stated that your idea came:

In very basic terms: primarily in the interest of organizing & compartmentalizing; it would be a housekeeping issue

If you permit me I would just like to linger on this a little longer to query why you feel that BUS requires organising into ‘themes’? Would you find it easier to navigate? How would it help you?

The way I see it, and this is only a personal view, if a forum is only for relationships or only for eating disorders or only for problems at school it would get very repetitive when I was reading it. There would only be one subject and I would be less likely to read it. The problem with grouping the posts by content for me would be that I wouldn’t just want to read about one topic. For me that’s one of the best things about the main board, different things come up and it’s not all the same. It’s about all aspects of people who self injure and their lives.

Most of the other forums, again in my personal opinion, bring together people with a similar ‘frame of mind’ rather than a single topic. There are forums for those committed to evaluate why they SI (before and after), those committed to coping in other ways (coping), those who have stopped (life after), those who are slightly older than the majority of members (the arc) etc. I would post there if I was looking for response from people in a similar ‘stage’ as me but it wouldn’t be specifically about one topic (I know that’s not the right word but I hope you can understand what I am trying to say).

As you said in your post

we all have relationships in our lives

and I feel that depending on the type of situation you would post where you felt either everyone (main) or, for example, just people who have also stopped (life after) would be able to relate to your post and reply in the way you are looking for.

I do however, I think, understand where you are coming from, in that you would rather ‘sort’ posts on your screen by topic rather than by common ‘frame of mind’ of those posting. It is not something I would find helpful but understand that it may be what you are looking for. Maybe an idea is to look into a way of searching posts by ‘theme’ rather than forum? I have a feeling this would be impossible or at least impractical to set up but it is an idea.

Dreams