Before

[Stellaria]

Whoa, that was unexpected! I posted in life after (here) about positives to stopping SI, and was hit by a strong urge, had an improvised tool in my hand before I knew it. Have put tool away but still tempted.

how will this situation or feeling change if i hurt myself?

I would feel safer. Comfortable from being in a known territory.

what will hurting myself bring to the situation? what will it take away from the situation?

It would bring a familiar routine of cleaning up, wound care, etc. It would bring feelings of guilt towards people around me.

It would take away the uncertainty of whether or not I deserve to not hurt.

how do i want to feel about this in the long run? is hurting myself likely to get me closer to or farther from feeling that way?

Shit. I want to feel safe. I know logically that hurting myself is the opposite of being safe, but I don't feel it.

if hurting myself seems like my best option right now, how long will the relief it brings last? what will i do then?

I don't know, but probably not very long. Right now I don't care, I just want to get through this moment.

what is something i could do now instead of hurting myself? how will it change the situation i'm in? how long will that change last, and what will i do then?

I could wrap myself up in bed, put some music on and try to relax. I could watch a movie until I fall asleep. It might make me feel safer, and I'm low on sleep so that would probably do me good. It would give me a couple of hours to hopefully snap out of this feeling.

how will i feel tomorrow if i hurt myself? how will i feel tomorrow if i do the other thing i came up with?

If I hurt myself, I would be disappointed for giving in, and relieved for not trying anymore.
If I did other stuff, I would be more proud of myself.

what do i really want to do right now? how can i best honor the self-protective instinct that has me wanting to self-injure right now?

This seems pathetic, but the reason I don't go ahead and SI right now is that I don't want to spoil my run of SI-free days. So I will go to bed and maybe think more about this when my head is clearer.

[swanfaerie]

fwiw, not si-ing to not lose your si-free days is just as good a reason as any other.

would you say that posting in that other thread reminded you of the familiar...si'ing? what have you done, or could you do, to replace that familiar/safe feeling of resorting to si?

i think sleep is an excellent idea. hope you feel better when you wake up.

[Smeagol]

Hi

Could you work on developing some more familiar routines which you would find soothing? For example always doing your bedtime routine in exactly the same order, or moisturising your hands/skin, or making a cup of tea with a proper teapot where you have to count out the right number of spoonss and then put the tea cosy on and then strain it and so on? It sounds to me like maybe having anothe rfamiliar routine might be something to do in the face of the unknown.

Why would si take away uncertainty about whether your deserve to hurt? Because it would be a moot question now you had hurt yourself? If you do deserve to hurt, would that mean you had to si? Sorry for all the questions, but I can't empathise with that point so I'm trying to figure out what it means.

I think wrapping yourself up to feel safe is a truly excellent idea. I hope you get through this.

Take care

[Stellaria]

Thank you Swannie and Smeagol for replying.

fwiw, not si-ing to not lose your si-free days is just as good a reason as any other.

I know - it just seemed so small and stupid when I posted that.

would you say that posting in that other thread reminded you of the familiar...si'ing?

Actually, it had more to do with listing positive things. My inner voice immediately said "you don't deserve those things". It often happens when I spell out positive changes I try to make, or positive qualities about myself, or even if someone else says something nice about me. I get a feeling of impending doom, I really feel threatened. Like it's a sin to say something good about yourself and now something awful will happen to even the score.

Why would si take away uncertainty about whether your deserve to hurt? Because it would be a moot question now you had hurt yourself?

Exactly. It's like making sure that nobody can criticise me for letting myself off the hook too easily, or something. Doing it to myself before someone else can do it to me. Punishment becomes more important than being fair.

If you do deserve to hurt, would that mean you had to si?

I have actually tried a few times to do more useful things as "punishment", things I don't enjoy that much like cleaning the bathroom, but it doesn't have the same impact.

Questions are good, helps me think!

I got such a strong feeling of being a small kid when I wrote the stuff above, living in a strange, unpredictable world and resorting to magical thinking to make sense of things.

what have you done, or could you do, to replace that familiar/safe feeling of resorting to si?

I did go to bed and wrap myself up, and managed to go back to sleep (when I wrote the original post it was early in the morning, and I had only had about three hours). Now I'm having some vanilla-flavoured tea, which makes me feel relaxed, and listening to some familiar music. Am feeling a whole lot better.

Could you work on developing some more familiar routines which you would find soothing?

Those are good ideas. I used to own a teapot, maybe it's time to get one again. Tea bags from the supermarket aren't as much fun as buying proper tea from a tea shop.

[Smeagol]

Actually, it had more to do with listing positive things. My inner voice immediately said "you don't deserve those things". It often happens when I spell out positive changes I try to make, or positive qualities about myself, or even if someone else says something nice about me. I get a feeling of impending doom, I really feel threatened. Like it's a sin to say something good about yourself and now something awful will happen to even the score.

Have you had any luck trying to figure out why you get that reaction? I'm interested that listing positive things about yourself should trigger this: is that like you're being complacent? Would there be any use in making a list of positives and a list of negatives? I was thinking that maybe if you have a list of things you have achieved and a list *the same length* to work on, then you can feel proud of the things you've done/your positive qualities and maybe even reward yourself, but you've still got a list of things you're not happy with so it's not like you're being complacent or feeling too good about yourself.

Exactly. It's like making sure that nobody can criticise me for letting myself off the hook too easily, or something.

have you ever tried writing a spirited defence of why you think you do deserve to be let off the hook? Trying to shout down the inner voices? You could include points like "I am a human being and I do not have to be perfect", "I am trying and that's what counts". Maybe you could get a list of ten assertive things and make sure to say them at least once a day? I'm just trying to think of ways of brainwashing the bit of you that thinks you're bad and unworthy into not thinking that.

I have actually tried a few times to do more useful things as "punishment", things I don't enjoy that much like cleaning the bathroom, but it doesn't have the same impact.

I wonder (and it's just a wonder), whether because actually you want to si, and you dont' want to clean the bathroom. Could it be that the "I need punishment" is another symptom (like the wanting to si) and that's why trying to answer that doesn't work? That's just a guess, and I can very easily see how there could be tons of other reasons, like a strong association with of you pain and punishment, rather than lack of enjoyment and punishment.

I got such a strong feeling of being a small kid when I wrote the stuff above, living in a strange, unpredictable world and resorting to magical thinking to make sense of things.

I can empathise with that.

I did go to bed and wrap myself up, and managed to go back to sleep (when I wrote the original post it was early in the morning, and I had only had about three hours). Now I'm having some vanilla-flavoured tea, which makes me feel relaxed, and listening to some familiar music. Am feeling a whole lot better.

I'm really pleased to hear all this.


Take care

[Stellaria]

Have you had any luck trying to figure out why you get that reaction?

Not really. I can think of situations in the past that may have contributed, but that doesn't explain to me why it can be such a strong gut reaction.

I realised that it's not always the same though, while I still have a tendency to be negative towards self, it's so much better when I'm not depressed. I have been doing better lately so that's why it threw me to suddenly react that strongly - but I was tired and a little sad at the time.

I'm interested that listing positive things about yourself should trigger this: is that like you're being complacent? Would there be any use in making a list of positives and a list of negatives?

Yes, that sounds like a way around it! The idea of balance appeals to me.

have you ever tried writing a spirited defence of why you think you do deserve to be let off the hook? Trying to shout down the inner voices? You could include points like I am a human being and I do not have to be perfect

Hmm. That's somewhere at the bottom of all this - I don't quite believe in my own humanity. Again, it's very mood dependant - if I'm generally ok, I can laugh at my own mistakes and not take myself all that seriously. But when I'm low, I'm convinced that there's a different set of rules for me than for other people. It doesn't help much that I rationally understand that it can't be that way, when I know in my heart that is how it is.

Maybe you could get a list of ten assertive things and make sure to say them at least once a day? I'm just trying to think of ways of brainwashing the bit of you that thinks you're bad and unworthy into not thinking that.

My b/f has tried to get me to do things like that, but I quit fairly quickly as I find it hard to endure the feelings it stirs up.

I have actually tried a few times to do more useful things as punishment, things I don't enjoy that much like cleaning the bathroom, but it doesn't have the same impact.

I wonder (and it's just a wonder), whether because actually you want to si, and you dont' want to clean the bathroom. Could it be that the I need punishment is another symptom (like the wanting to si) and that's why trying to answer that doesn't work?

That makes sense. And when I want to SI, there are usually multiple reasons behind it, some of which can be contradictory. Even when I try to look at what is going on, I probably only get half of it...

[syn]

[quote=Stellaria]
I realised that it's not always the same though, while I still have a tendency to be negative towards self, it's so much better when I'm not depressed. I have been doing better lately so that's why it threw me to suddenly react that strongly - but I was tired and a little sad at the time.[/quote]

I find tiredness to be a big trigger, especially if it's late and there is no one else around. Perhaps turning on some music, the radio, or TV would help remove you from your thoughts. When I have particularly triggering nights I put podcasts on my ipod and fall asleep to them. On real bad nights I go in the living room and sleep on the couch with the TV.

For me being sleepy is triggering because I'm not able to think as clearly and automatic thoughts, like the triggering ones come into my head first, and my defenses are down. Distraction techniques work the best for me then.

I feel you on negative thinking and depression, I think they're a package deal sometimes. I find it helpful not necessarily to think positive but to analyze the reality of the thoughts I'm thinking. Like when I think that nobody likes me, I think back that they wouldn't talk to me if they didn't. If my brain responds with some sort of conspiracy theory I ask myself how likely that is. If I'm feeling awful about myself I try to ask myself would I have been able to do _____ if I was so awful?

Sometimes fighting fire with fire doesn't work for me, meaning fighting negative with positive. BUT fighting negative with reality sometimes works. If not I move onto distracting myself, with people I trust, or by myself with something that works for me.

Hope this makes sense, and helps.

[Stellaria]

Thanks for your reply.

I find tiredness to be a big trigger, especially if it's late and there is no one else around. Perhaps turning on some music, the radio, or TV would help remove you from your thoughts.

Actually, the most risky time for me is usually the early morning, before the rest of the house wakes up. Sometimes I wake up very early (like 3 am) and haven't slept enough to be really rested. I do love to be up in the mornings, but kind of like you described your nights, it's a time when automatic thoughts are more likely to take over than in broad daylight.

I often listen to music, and sometimes I do turn on the tv, it's a good distraction, though it only helps if the thoughts are not too strong.

I find it helpful not necessarily to think positive but to analyze the reality of the thoughts I'm thinking. Like when I think that nobody likes me, I think back that they wouldn't talk to me if they didn't. If my brain responds with some sort of conspiracy theory I ask myself how likely that is. If I'm feeling awful about myself I try to ask myself would I have been able to do _____ if I was so awful?

These are good suggestions. I guess what I find hard is that when I'm depressed, what I perceive as reality is slanted towards the negative. Like if I think nobody likes me, I would certainly be able to come up with examples of people who don't talk to me, to prove my point.