Windows/Explorer/Outlook Express

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Windows/Explorer/Outlook Express

Post by swirlish » Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:00 pm

I always hear people saying that Windows (XP) is horrible, Explorer is horrible, Outlook Express is horrible, Black Ice Firewall is horrible.

I use all four of those and they work excellent for me. My system rarely crashes. I keep my computer on 24/7. I send a lot of mail, play games, chat, surf etc etc. It doesn't crash. It doesn't give me tons of viruses. None of the so called hackers who have tried to penetrate my firewall have succeeded (no, that's not an invitation).

I'm not saying these things are perfect and I'm not saying I know more than those who say they suck (trust me, I don't :roll: ) I just want to know why. Because I don't get it.

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Post by Laura » Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:16 pm

I don't use the other things you mention, so I can't comment, but as someone who writes web pages (nothing flashy, just e-books for Project Gutenberg actually) I know that Internet Exploder is a menace to web design. It doesn't comply with the W3C standards properly, has bizarre quirks that make it behave differently from all normal browsers, and has a number of known bugs (such as not recognising certain end tags unless they are separated by a space in your source code - wtf??) that we all have to alter our html and css to take account of. (See this page for the ones I'm talking about.)

The lives of web designers would be much easier if the majority weren't still using such a buggy browser. :omad:
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Post by swirlish » Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:39 pm

:oops: You know Laura, I didn't even think about web designers! :oops: Now, THAT I can understand. And I wouldn't mind switching to something else if it made other people's lives easier.

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Post by Smeagol » Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:49 pm

*agrees on the webdesign* I was happy with IE until I tried to write webpages. My biggest bitch is that we have "min-height" and "height", whereby setting "min-height" means that something will be that height as a minimum but can grow if necessary. "height" means it's always the same height. IE implements "height" as "min-height", meaning that when it comes to making things the right height, you can either have it work in IE, or in every other browser. If I could find the guy who decided that...

Speaking as probably a power-user, I find Windows to be a blunt instrument when I prefer precision tools. I hate the way in an attempt to get people to use their computer safely they can make it impossible for me, the educated user, to do things my way (eg reset the security level below medium for *their own site*). I also hate the way they handle multi-users: with user-privileges at work I can't even click on the clock to see the frickin' calendar. Wtf????

Then I simply prefer using Firefox to IE. I think it's a better browser. For a start, it has tabs. Then it has all the extensions. and it's standards compliant. And small. And fast. I jus tthink it's a better browser. Just in general, no matter what type of user you are.

Word I'm happy with; Excel I think sucks. How can you have a back history of only 1 and moreover one which is extinguisehd if you save? Why will stuff only stay on the clipboard between copying and pasting, i.e. why can't you copy row 250, scroll down to row 4000, insert a new row, and then paste in row 250? Why? Because Excel forgets the contents of the clipboard if you perform any other action in between. I think that's lousy design. And so on.

Beyond that we're into philosophical differences. I think Windows as software has improved enormously in recent years, but I don't like MS's business model. They have embrace and extend, whereby they refuse to adopt a standard, then "adopt it" but add in proprietary features, get 90% of the world to upgrade ebcause you have to do that on Windows and by the way it's not free, and then we end up with a mess. I admit this is probably just big business, but I don't like it, and it's caused a whole heap of problems.
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Post by The_Green_One » Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:55 pm

Also the security on IE is quite appaling the amount of adware popups and viruses that can get through is quite scary. IE was good a few years ago. I read a blog from one of the designers of IE even he now felt that it was outdated and a security risk. The problem is a lot of people don't realise there are other browsers out there.

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Post by ben » Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:23 am

Also, IE and Outlook run very close to the core of the operating system itself.

Whilst XP is a vast improvement on earlier versions, the very fact that programs can be downloaded onto your machine without your express permission is not good.
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Post by GLaDOS » Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:46 pm

Windows products are just... obnoxious. I hate it how MS makes all its products flashy and stuff... but useful stuff gets lost there. also, i hate it how they think i'M stupid and wherever i want to do something that Windows thinks is wrong, i get messages like "Sure you wanna do it? Really sure? Really really sure? Last chance to turn back! Back it up first?" eh...

also, Outlook just keeps getting slower and crappier with every new version.
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Post by Priceless » Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:52 pm

IE makes my computer crash :roll:

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Post by ChaseThisLight » Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:58 pm

I really want to get Linux, but don't really know how to go about doing that...windows XP is better than 2000 or ME (unless you're running a network, than 2000 is okay) but that's not saying a whole lot. (especially because ME was truly awful)
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Post by Priceless » Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:24 pm

I wanna try linux too, but im scared that im too stupid :oops:
I dont know about me, but ive found NT to be really horrible

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Re: Windows/Explorer/Outlook Express

Post by emark » Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:22 am

In my opinion, Windows is fine these days - it may or may not be as stable as other OSs, but it's reasonable nonetheless. I feel that a lot of the "Windows is so unstable" is a carryover from Windows 9x/Me days (which is an entirely different OS, which *was* very unstable - but then again, so were versions of MacOS say, from the same era).

I dislike Internet Explorer not just because of the security risks, but because it lacks so many features (eg, saving opened pages, reopening pages I've just closed, remembering what I've typed into webforms if I click forward/back). Browsers like Opera (or Firefox if you get the necessary extensions) are well worth having a look at.

I dislike Outlook simply because it is an abysmal mail client. Eg, it replies in HTML even if you tell it to do Plain Text, and when you then manually convert to Plain Text, the text isn't indented with ">" like I asked it to. Options are scattered about various different places, and it's often hard to find things, or they're buried under several option windows (eg, a simple task like viewing the headers takes several clicks, and you only get a tiny window to view it in). And it just seems so slow - if I have a few hundred new messages, it takes ages to filter all of these, but Eudora does this in seconds.

Outlook is one of the reasons why many of the mailing lists I'm on are so unreadable - I often have no idea who's written what, due to all the messed up quoting.

And as for security, the big problem is a scripting language which allows automated sending of messages: that's what allowed all the most well known email viruses, costing businesses billions of dollars. Once upon a time, it was a well known joke/hoax if someone claimed you could get a virus by email...

I've noted that whilst I'm happy to use Windows, just about all the software I use is not from Microsoft.

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Post by emark » Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:24 am

notmardy wrote:I really want to get Linux, but don't really know how to go about doing that...windows XP is better than 2000 or ME (unless you're running a network, than 2000 is okay) but that's not saying a whole lot. (especially because ME was truly awful)
Can I ask how XP is better than 2000?

I mean yes, I know it has new features, but just to make it clear to anyone who might misunderstand, 2000 is still miles better than Me; XP is a newer version of 2000, basically, where as Me was a different operating system altogether.

It may not be saying a lot than XP is better than 2000, but it *is* saying a lot that 2000 is miles better than Me.

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Post by ChaseThisLight » Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:35 am

For what I do, XP seems to be more stable and compatible. 2000 was fine...don't get me wrong...and ME...well...nevermind ME. Just my opinion.
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Re: Windows/Explorer/Outlook Express

Post by Guest » Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:06 am

mian wrote:I always hear people saying that Windows (XP) is horrible, Explorer is horrible, Outlook Express is horrible, Black Ice Firewall is horrible.
never used blackice. heard good and bad things about it. it depends on level of functionality of user -- remember, most of the time computer problems lie with the obstacle between chair and keyboard.
I'm not saying these things are perfect and I'm not saying I know more than those who say they suck (trust me, I don't :roll: ) I just want to know why. Because I don't get it.
<i>why internet explorer sucks</i>

smeagol brought up a good point: webpage desighn. if you desighn webpages, ie is more of an occupational hazard than not. especially for those of use who don't use standard HTML or use HTML with addons.

security issues. ie has more holes than swiss cheese. I don't like having to update my browser once a day because there's a new exploit. that's frightening to me and majorly, majorly irritating. popups and spyware are another huge major nono. i used to have hugemajor issues with spyware and virii.

lack of customizable features. with firefox, i have my nice adblock extension, tabbed browsing, bookmarks toolbar so i don't have to go fishing around my bookmarks folder to get to the things i always read, otherwise i'd spend eons traveling through my addressbar history and bookmarks.

IT SLOWS MY FRIGGING LAPTOP TO A CRAWL. IE crashes my laptop horrifically because it eats up so much system resources that there's nothing else to allocate to other things that, um, might be necessary.

<i>why outlook sucks</i>

again. lack of customizable features. lack of ability to view blocked addresses. default rich text mode when sending email, which makes email reading a horrific experience (and migraine inducing when some bint decides to use 24-point pink comic sans MS to write an email), no default filtering. I have to drag and drop individual mail messages to other folders if I want to be able to view them. emark highlighted about 99% of the other things I was going to say.

<i>why xp sucks</i>

...Because it's prone to virii, more security holes than swiss cheese, hogs RAM and is too dumbed-down for those of us with any technological capability to use it effectively. XP Home is the bane of my existence. I do more tech support for users with XP Home than I ever did with Pro.

XP also has this annoying tendency to kill your system. I've gone through 2 of them thanks to the wondrous non-achievement of XP. If XP decides to PMS, you better buy yourself a new system, because it will kill it irrecovably.

Program installation / uninstallation. NOTHING IS EVER COMPLETELY UNINSTALLED. Unlike on my mac where I just have to drag it to the Trash along with its associated plist files and MAYBE a log or three, on Windows, things stay in the registry forever, and even when you think you've got it all gone, *bam!* there's another file. Installation is also a farce which requires memory, harddrive and temp file sucking of insane proportions.

I will say this though: XP Pro is a TON better than Home, especially with the addition of SP1 (SP2 won't work with my puter.) It's less crash-prone, handles system resources better, and is generally less of a pain in the ass to run than Home is.

<i>other MS OS'es</i>

NT just SUCKS. I would go into reasons why NT sucks, but I'd be here a while and it's already 2am.

ME eats harddrives. ME is also a flaming peice of shit. I've never seen anything crash so fast, so hard, and so stupidly in my life.

2000 Pro is a fairly decent peice of software.

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