age -- important

Post by **sine nomine** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:27 pm

if you are under 13, please send me a pm. you cannot be on this board without permissionf orm your parents.

i'm trusting you not to lie and to come forward, because it's a matter of us federal law. i cannot allow members who are under 13 unless i have been sent written and signed permission from a parent or guardian. i also require a phone number so that i can verify the permission. if i violate this law, there's a small risk of this baord being shut down. i don't want to take that risk.

it doesn't matter if you don't live in the us; since i am a us citizen, i am bound by this law. so please, if you're underage, let me know.

deb

Nate2002 · Post by **Nate2002** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:42 pm

I think i'm right in saying this applies to alters/insiders who are under 13 that they're not allowed to post.

nate

Post by **sine nomine** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:32 am

to be fair to everyone and to keep people safe, yes.

deb

kater · Post by **kater** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:24 pm

Hi Deb,
Would it be at all possible for you to delete the last two lines of your directive.
Maybe legally you only have to be liable for under age USA members
but wouldn't it be more universally responsible to adopt this safety net for all under age members?
Just my perspective as a primary teacher in the UK....
Regards Kate

ben · Post by **ben** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:41 pm

Kater - it means that irrespective of where in the world a user may be -
if they're under 13 it makes Deb liable,
so they must let her know.

kater · Post by **kater** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:52 pm

Ok
I agree, as long as all kids are protected as far as possible from reading potentially triggerring posts, which are hard enough for adults to cope with.

But I agree they do need support too....
So it is a double edged sword....
Thanks for listening
Kate

Post by **sine nomine** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:03 pm

it's really not anything i have control over. because of a law called the child online protection from pornography act (COPPA), i am required by law to get a signed permission form from the parents or guardian of anyone aged 13 or under if i collect any personal inforamtion, and it's been established in court that an email address is personally identifying information.

it's not a choice i'm making, it's a requirement of the law. if i knowingly violate this law, i can be prosecuted and maybe even forced to take the board down. i have to comply with this law.

deb

kater · Post by **kater** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:36 pm

Hi Deb,
I was not questioning the law or you.
But just asking that all
kids are equally protected from all countries not just the USA.
Just apply the rule universally for the sake of all kids.
Maybe I am too protective cos I am a primary teacher and a parent
but I would hate any child to be reading posts here and learning 'bad' habits.
I know you have rules to avoid graphic detail etc and I really approve of that especially for the sake of our younger members and more vulnerable or impressionable members. (Of which I am one at times!).
Kate

Proximity · Post by **Proximity** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:36 am

sine nomine wrote:it doesn't matter if you don't live in the us; since i am a us citizen, i am bound by this law. so please, if you're underage, let me know.

I think you're misunderstanding this part

what this means is - Even if you don't live in the US, you STILL need to tell deb if you're under 13 because by US law, deb is liable, no matter WHERE you live.
AKA - everyone under 13, not just Americans.

prox.

friarygirl · Post by **friarygirl** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:39 am

kater wrote:Hi Deb,
Would it be at all possible for you to delete the last two lines of your directive.
Maybe legally you only have to be liable for under age USA members
but wouldn't it be more universally responsible to adopt this safety net for all under age members?
Just my perspective as a primary teacher in the UK....
Regards Kate

I have to agree with what Kater said here, even though I KNOW what you're all saying about universal applicability is quite right, and of course the safety net IS universally adopted..

I can see kids in UK or Australia or anywhere thinking, hey, this is cool, it's US law and doesn't apply to us... but just by deleting the last two lines, that wouldn't arise so much... Kids can be pretty literal sometimes, and in the UK in particular they're just beginning to feel their feet with regard to their rights etc..

Sekhmet, Prox, I don't think Kater's misunderstanding anything, I think she's just reading it like some kids in UK would - we may speak the same language, but often we understand different things from it

. And if I was reading that in the guise of my 10 y-o UK niece, I might just think "well hey, I'm in UK and it's only somebody called Deb who'll get in trouble, so what the heck"...

And kids do so lie about their age if they think they can get something out of it. Especially if they think the only comeback is some lady called Deb in USA carrying the can???

Laura · Post by **Laura** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:06 am

Ah, I see: I read "It doesn't matter if you don't live in the US" to mean "this rule still applies", which is what Deb meant. But it could be taken to mean "this rule doesn't matter if you don't live in the US"

Post by **Jomomma** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:14 pm

Reguardless of where you live in the world, you MUST have signed permission from a parent or legal guardian if you are under the age of 13.

kater · Post by **kater** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:07 pm

Hi Jo,
That sounds better wording Jo.
Thanks, I think we need to be very careful about how exactly we word these important issues.
I, misread or not, interpreted it to mean "it doesn't matter/apply to under age kids except in USA".
Maybe its the use of language difference, even though we both speak 'English'.
But non USA kids may 'read' it the same as me, a UK teacher.
Many thanks
Kate

friarygirl · Post by **friarygirl** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:24 am

Sounds pretty non-misunderstandable Jo.

Is that a real word, or did I finally invent something?

It's a little thing that means a lot different in UK and US English (if someone supplies another interpretation from Aus/NZ, I am going to EXPLODE

)!

despair · Post by **despair** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:42 pm

sine nomine wrote: because of a law called the child online protection from pornography act (COPPA), i am required by law to get a signed permission form from the parents or guardian of anyone aged 13 or under

Wait. Just a suggestion. I have alot of friens that are under 13. Is it only the coppa law that makes them unable to post without guardian consent?
or are thier other laws. i looked some info up and most of it says that if the site is made within the boundries of the us and has a consideral amount of *SI, SA, SU* talk or images that you have to be 13 or older. in 1 of your earlier posts it said 13 or under must have guardian consent. is this a law or a safety rule for the board?

im just wondering. hope no one takes offence for the last sentence. just a question.

thanks
Despair

Post by **swirlish** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:26 pm

despair<3 wrote:
sine nomine wrote: because of a law called the child online protection from pornography act (COPPA), i am required by law to get a signed permission form from the parents or guardian of anyone aged 13 or under

Wait. Just a suggestion. I have alot of friens that are under 13. Is it only the coppa law that makes them unable to post without guardian consent?
or are thier other laws. i looked some info up and most of it says that if the site is made within the boundries of the us and has a consideral amount of *SI, SA, SU* talk or images that you have to be 13 or older. in 1 of your earlier posts it said 13 or under must have guardian consent. is this a law or a safety rule for the board?

im just wondering. hope no one takes offence for the last sentence. just a question.

thanks
Despair

The no one under 13 rule is a law. I think it's called COPPA?

toXic · Post by **toXic** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:13 pm

to be honest all these "Terms of Agreement" things online, and in computer programs, are completely useless... it could be anyone clicking "i accept" on those things, and since there isn't any way of identifying the person who accepted there really is no way to get in trouble from this... unless of course big brother has cameras hidden inside all of our homes.

in which case... *waves to big brother

*

if someone is on here and they are under 13, there really is no way of actually proving it without getting a signed form and valid ID in person. until they find a way to confirm age 100% over the internet, we really have nothing to worry about on this board, or any other for that matter.

sry for bringing back an old topic.

Boogie Man · Post by **Boogie Man** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:50 pm

toxic wrote:to be honest all these "Terms of Agreement" things online, and in computer programs, are completely useless... it could be anyone clicking "i accept" on those things, and since there isn't any way of identifying the person who accepted there really is no way to get in trouble from this... unless of course big brother has cameras hidden inside all of our homes.

no, they aren't completely useless...

by clicking "i accept" you are legally bound to follow the terms and conditions to which you have accepted, otherwise you risk prosecution if you do otherwise.
the terms and conditions (usually set out by software manufacturers) are there to protect their intellectual property rights, and to give them solid legal grounds for which to prosecute people who violate those rights (such as a breach of copyright).

of course clicking "i accept" doesn't stop people from violating the terms of agreement. but if such terms didn't exist then software manufacturers would have no grounds to legally challange those who would openly pirate their material.

the same thing works for deb (as the webmaster of BUS) but in reverse.

toxic wrote:if someone is on here and they are under 13, there really is no way of actually proving it without getting a signed form and valid ID in person. until they find a way to confirm age 100% over the internet, we really have nothing to worry about on this board, or any other for that matter.

it doesn't matter weather or not under 13's are using this board without permission from their parents, that's not the issue; the issue here is protecting deb from legal action.

if deb didn't have these terms of agreement in place she would be open to legal action by anyone who is so inclined (such as the parent of an underage busser); since according to US law it is illegal for her to have underage people using this site without permission from their parent or guardian.
even though underage people can still post on BUS simply by lying about their age; having these terms of agreement prevents anyone taking legal action against deb with regards to underage people using her site.

it's all about legalities; these rules apply to any web-based forum hosted in the US.

peace

PlaneCrazyYentl · Post by **PlaneCrazyYentl** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:16 am

So wait... Is it okay for alters to read and post here if they're over 13? That's probably a stupid question. Oh well.

Post by **swirlish** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:43 am

Yes, along as you realize that the responsibility of what's posted lies with you, the host or main personality or whatever you want to call yourself. The person who registered the name is also responsible for what's posted. (Regarding alters over 13.) Saying "I didn't know, my alter did it" is not an excuse.

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