Before.

[herebedragons]

(typing "before" always makes it sound to me like injuring myself is the next thing on my to do list. But that's just me. I'm pedantic and stuff.)

how will this situation or feeling change if i hurt myself?

I don't think it will change much at all except that for the moment I won't want to hurt myself. I doubt very much anyone will notice so it's not likely to change anything externally.

what will hurting myself bring to the situation? what will it take away from the situation?

hurting myself will give me a bit of relief from the urge to hurt myself. Ugh I sound like an addict. I don't think of myself like an addict though I have used SI just to get to feeling normal so there are some comparisons.

how do i want to feel about this in the long run? is hurting myself likely to get me closer to or farther from feeling that way?

The long run is really far to long for me to think right now. I'm depressed and thinking about the longrun is likely to push me over the edge so I'm avoiding it.

if hurting myself seems like my best option right now, how long will the relief it brings last? what will i do then?

not long enough. begin the cycle over. Obsess for as long as I can hold out, hurt myself, feel better, stop feeling better, obsess etc etc.

what is something i could do now instead of hurting myself? how will it change the situation i'm in? how long will that change last, and what will i do then?

I could work on the anxiety work book. I could figure out when I could fit counseling in again and if we could afford it this month. Anxiety isn't really my problem right now, depression is so the workbook wouldn't probably help in that way but it would be something to do. Then again I'm feeling a bit wiped out to work on it. I don't know.

how will i feel tomorrow if i hurt myself? how will i feel tomorrow if i do the other thing i came up with?

I suspect that I won't feel much different either way. SI helps snap me out of anxiety often times but anxiety isn't the issue so I don't expect the problem will be tons better, then again SI has also served as a good way to keep from killng myself in the past, in a way it does help a bit with the depression a bit. Oh hell I don't know if it would help or not, it's been a long time since I've dealt with these particular feelings in this way.

what do i really want to do right now? how can i best honor the self-protective instinct that has me wanting to self-injure right now?

Sleep for about ten years. I'm editing one line out because I thought it was too methoody. Basically I would like to be close to a methood of killing myself, have the means available to me so to speak not so that I would kill myself but so that it felt like I had the option. Or talk to someone.

[demidivine]

I have used SI just to get to feeling normal.

I understand this, and your remark about obsessing. You sound like you have already identified the emotions that you need to get rid of to feel "normal" - can you identify the state of mind you are in when you feel "normal"? Perhaps understanding the changes in mentality, actions and thought patterns would help to find other ways of returning to normality. But it sounds like you've thought this through a lot previously.

The long run is really far to long for me to think right now.

How about tomorrow, or the day after tomorrow? That's about as long-term as I get, currently.

More counselling sounds like a good idea - I don't know where you're based, but there are lots of people around here who seem to know how to get at least some help for free in most countries. If you are too mentally drained to work through the problem areas currently, and are just attempting to survive, then is there anything - an activity, perhaps - that would help with the survival, rather than the analysis? Possibly attempting to tackle the wiped-out feeling first before the emotions, would be a better start.

I understand the need for the option. I hope you maintain the balance. Talking to someone, I feel, would be the better way - I'm around if you need anyone online, but is there someone you could meet or ring around you?

I'm sorry I'm a little pants today, but I really hope you're okay. Take as much care of yourself as you possibly can.

[strmdncr]

Oh hell I don't know if it would help or not, it's been a long time since I've dealt with these particular feelings in this way.

If it's not too personal a question, how have you dealt with these feelings more recently? And is that something you could possibly do at this time?

[herebedragons]

I understand the need for the option. I hope you maintain the balance. Talking to someone, I feel, would be the better way - I'm around if you need anyone online, but is there someone you could meet or ring around you?

Thanks very much for the offer, it's quite late here so calling someone isn't an option, though if it was I can't think of a single person to call. I'm not alone so I'm safe in that regard. I'm absolutely NOT in danger of killing myself, I hope I didn't leave that impression. Indeed, that is partly what make me depressed. I can't kill myself I wouldn't do that to my husband and my kiddos. Hell I can't even imagine being able to die of natural causes in peace because when I die who will take care of my daughter? (My daughter is autistic and Deaf, my son has issues but less so and will most likely be able to live on his own and hold a job and have a typical life my daughter will almost certainly need to be cared for forever.) When I was younger and I was depressed I would fantacise about suicide, not saying this was healthy eventually it lead to a rather serious suicide attempt with lifelong health reprecussions. But now I don't have that. I can't even daydream about it guilt-free!

Gads I sound like a whiner.

Yes I should continue with therapy. I've really only just started, I had two sessions and then summer came and I haven't had any in the last month or two because it's hard to get someone to watch the kids plus there is a $30 copay. I'm lucky to have insurence (though I believe it only covers 10 sessions a year, not much of a problem since we can only afford the copay once a month) but then if I go to another session I'll have to pay our deductable which is..I don't recall..$150? $200? Ugh.

Rambling, sorry. I find that typing helps..if only in that it keeps both hands busy.

If it's not too personal a question, how have you dealt with these feelings more recently? And is that something you could possibly do at this time?

Well most of the summer I haven't actually been too depressed. When I've gotten really low I have self injured but using a different methood (with some bizarro world rationalization that at least I wasn't using my regular m.o. so somehow that wasn't as unhealthy. It honestly seemed to make sense at the time.)

Depending upon what is making me depressed I've been able to talk myself out of it sometimes using a suggestion by the therapist who told me to argue both sides. For example if I feel like my family would be better off without me I list the pros and cons, or if I feel like I'm unlovable or what have you. Tongith I'm more generically depressed and feeling kind of hopeless and overwhelmed about the future so it's harder to just talk myself out of the mood. Plus a lot of my problem is just plain vanilla wanting to hurt myself.

[plantt]

typing "before" always makes it sound to me like injuring myself is the next thing on my to do list.
--that's one of my issues with mentioning having urges i end up feeling like i've given the impression that i have *tool* in hand & am ready to go. yet when i clearly say 'i have an urge to do x yet i'm not going to'... it doesn't have the same intensity/persistence/etc in my mind. it doesn't get across how things are feeling to me. but yes. rambleramble.

you mentioned working in the anxiety workbook... & makes me wonder if you've considered getting a depression workbook as well... there are depression workbooks... & also (forget the exact wording) but 'how to prevent relapse' type workbooks. might be worth checking out...

am wondering too if you've discussed the financial & kid-watching difficulties with your counselor... if counseling is something that's been helpful for you... maybe she could help you find options to make it more doable financially & kid-wise.

hurting myself will give me a bit of relief from the urge to hurt myself.
--*nods* is one of the things that i've found distracting is helpful with. really i dislike simply distracting. *really* dislike. seems too avoidant & really it is... yet i've also been learning that sometimes... avoiding really isn't a bad thing. when i'm wanting to hurt myself simply so the urge will go away... & my brain keeps saying 'but i Want to' & i attempt to think about it & think it through... the urge stays 'no you don't understand i WANT to'. i can rationalize it all i want yet the urge just keeps chanting louder & louder. whereas if i simply say 'i'm not going to' & go play shoelace with kitties or do the dishes or whatever... & whenever i hear the 'but i WAAAAAnt to' i stick with 'i'm not going to'... eventually it lessens.

Or talk to someone.
--would emailing or something help? depending on time phones really aren't the best option. sometimes emailing or writing can provide some sense of contact...

[herebedragons]

you mentioned working in the anxiety workbook... & makes me wonder if you've considered getting a depression workbook as well... there are depression workbooks... & also (forget the exact wording) but 'how to prevent relapse' type workbooks. might be worth checking out...

That's a good idea. The anxiety workbook has actually been very helpful. I find that a lot of my problem (and this is not exactly a shocker) is that I have no clue how to cope with these feelings. None of the stuff I've learned from the counselor or the workbook should probably be Earth shattering but it's stuff that never occured to me to try. (It's kind of funny how much I suck at dealing with things because people have always seen me as the kind of person who deals well with things. Of course if you internalize everything you're going to look like you are dealing with things well.)

I think I will schedule an appointment for the counselor and deal with the money part when it comes up. Hell maybe I'll charge it, what's a little more debt? Because I want to talk to someone about how I'm feeling, and get this stuff out I don't know if it will help but it seems like it can't hurt. The couselor is perfect because she's not emotionally involved in my life. The idea of me killing myself isn't going to affect her like it would my husband or...well hell my husband is the only one outside of bus and this one other internet friend who knows I've ever considered killing myself much less that I still wish it was an option sometimes. Well no actually my former best friend knows being as he was the lucky soul who got to deal with the immediate aftermath of me trying to kill myself. But we haven't talked in like eight years. Oh hey He's someone who could help take care of my kiddo when I die! She is his biological kiddo afterall. Hmmm yeah I can just see him and my husband doing the "My two Dad's" thing with my daughter. (Dating myself a bit there.)

My mind is kind of a jumbled mess today. (NO!) I hate this self destructive feeling because I really do love my life I just hate myself. And yes I do feel trapped and I know that is part of my problem. I feel trapped, I feel like I have no options and that's not a great feeling. So I don't know what my problem is. Do I want to kill myself because I hate myself and wish I was dead or do I just want a way to escape because I feel trapped? I shouldn't feel trapped. I love my husband and my kids but I have no dreams and no asperations and no goals for the future other than to keep my little family intact and happy and such. Those are good goals, those should suffice. I should feel content so the problem must be with me.

Part of my problem is I didn't ever plan for this. I never planned to be 31 hell I never planned to be 21. I feel that by getting pregnant I got trapped into staying alive and I never dealt with the fact that up until then I was totally commited to dying. It's not that I got cured I just stopped feeling like it was ok for me to die. So whatever made me nearly kill myself ten years ago hasn't gone away. I feel worse than I did then because then I had a plan, I had an exit, I knew when I was going and that I was going. I felt sure about it. Now I have no control.

Ok calling to get that appointment.

[herebedragons]

Got one for 10am Friday morning.

[plantt]

good
*nods* getting older kinda sneaks up. i always had it firmly in my mind that i'd end up dead too. before i got this old. & now... it feels like i'm alive... but 'shouldn't' be. alive yet with none of the.... joy? expectations? goals? etc that someone my age is expected to have. is odd.
can only imagine how having kids would add to that.

[herebedragons]

I was thinking of writing "Ask me about suicidal idealation" on my forehead in perminant marker before my appointment on Friday but it occurs to me that I may have the therapists email address and could, perhaps, email her that request instead.

That might get me less strange looks on the bus.

[herebedragons]

Couldn't find her email addy but in looking on our HMOs site I found a worksheet on suicidal thoughts (a "fill this out and bring it with you to the doctor's" thing) So I did that and put it in my workbook so that I will be more likely to take it. I figure if I take it I'm more likely to talk about it, eh?

This is dumb having to work around myself to make sure that I talk about this thing that I want..or at least feel the need to talk about. I'm a little worried that after all this time of never talking about it that I either won't be able too or having finally gotten up the nerve to talk about it I'll get blown off.

This is a real worry for me because first off- I first made a concrete plan to kill myself when I was 8 and..I'm 31 so clearly I'm not all that serious about it. I've only made one serious suicide attempt and a few of sort of suicide flirtations. If I was going to kill myself I'd have done it by now, right? And I even admit, and will no doubt admit to the therapist that I find it fairly unlikely that I will actually kill myself. I do have a concrete, I feel fairly foolproof plan but chances are my feelings of responcibility to my family and love for them will always over ride it. They have so far.

Plus there were a lot of good reasons to keep this to myself. For one thing, if I tell her and then I kill myself, she may feel badly. Or if I tell her she may over react and want me commited. I don't have time for that. Sure, I also don't have time to die which is why I'm planning to bring it up in the first place.

I'm sorry, this is the wrong board for this I'm sure. I am still having urges though and this is the most possitive way I can think to deal with them right now.