Visual thoughts? **SI, SU, violence**

real · Post by **real** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 1:53 pm

The following is an edited copy of my PM reply to Nina after she PMd the above info to me.

Hi Nina,

Wow! Thank you soooooooooo much. I just read your post & haven't been to the link yet. I wanted to thank you first.

I really related to a lot of the stuff in the quotes. It's amazing. I hadn't thought of OCD. I knew I had a few very mild OCD traits such as checking the doors (once) before going to bed, fearing being attacked at home or elsewhere (perhaps this is not so mild). However, I thought these & other similar things were PTSD phenomena due to violence from my childhood.

But come to think of it, I'm very obsessive about not making mistakes in my writing, even posts on BUS, emails to friends, etc.

I need to process & think about this a lot more, & read the stuff on the internet. It is making a lot of sense, though.

Thanks again, this is such a gift you have given me. I feel very excited. You are an angel!

God bless you,

real

Stellaria · Post by **Stellaria** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:11 pm

Hehe, I don't feel very angelic

- but I'm glad that you also found this stuff of interest.

I also need to read and process much more, but here are a couple of additional links:

http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forum/index.php - a UK based forum on OCD and related disorders. It's smaller than bus (many forums are

) but set up in the same way and at first glance it looks friendly.

From a post on that forum I picked up these links:

'Morbid Obsessions' by Dr. Fred Penzel **case study with lots of graphic descriptions**
http://www.homestead.com/westsuffolkpsych/Morbid.html

and 'Thinking the Unthinkable' by Dr. S. Phillipson - talks about specific treatment steps
http://www.ocdonline.com/articlephillipson1.htm

Nina

real · Post by **real** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:42 pm

Hey Nina,

I went to all the sites & read a bit.

I've just been to the OCD Action Bulletin board (mentioned in your post above) & found the thread where you got the above book references & websites. Most of what they were talking about sounds exactly like what I get, so I'm going to join that site too & find the other threads & links they talked about.

I'll let you all know here how I go & what I find. I hope they don't just end up saying that the only things you can do are taking meds & doing CBT!

I'm feeling really excited that I'm on to something REALLY positive & helpful.

Thanks again,

real

real · Post by **real** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:40 pm

Hi everyone,

Hey, Nina, thank you sooooooooooooooooo much for finding that Obsessive Compulsive Disorder support site for me, & the info about OCD.

I haven't read many articles on OCD as the few I saw favoured meds &/or CBT only, neither of which I'm interested in. I will look for other articles, sites, etc., when I get more time. However, I've been quite involved in the support site, which I have found extremely supportive & helpful. It was SUCH a relief to find what is causing my images of violence, & to relate with people with similar issues. I'm still processing my discoveries, so I don't have much to report so far. Also, it is a very small site, compared with BUS, so I'll continue with BUS as well because I really like it here.

Hope things are going well for all of you.

Kind thoughts,

real

real · Post by **real** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:54 pm

Hi anyone who reads this thread,

I came looking for it to see if anyone had posted. It's a bit of a slow moving thread

I gave up on the OCD site I had visited, because the main thing was recommending Cognitive Behaviour Therapy & medication, both of which I hate. Although there was some good stuff there, & good people, I just found it hard to keep up with that site as well as BUS, & I feel as though I relate better to the people on BUS.

However, good news

........ I have had hardly any SI/SU images since I've been doing dreamwork & some spiritual work. So, I must be doing something right

All the best,

real

depressedgrl666 · Post by **depressedgrl666** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:08 pm

i know what you mean i have had a really bad childhood and i try to block it out but these scenes just go over in my head and i cant control them and when they are going on the urge to cut gets stronger and stronger and i......give into it

and they just wont stop and i have tried to stop SIing but i just cant
~Lauren

eyeris · Post by **eyeris** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:07 am

*SI/ SU*

Hi, this is my first real posting, I just joined, so sorry if I'm not doing it right yet. Anyway, this section has been really interesting to read about. I can't relate to the really violent, movie-like images some people get, but I do occasionally get images of how I've killed myself, or hurt myself, sometimes so vivid I can't get over them. Usually, what I do when this happens, is draw them. It has been very helpful so far, though if my parents ever thumbed through my sketchbook or someone happened to read through my journal, I would probably be locked away. But the actual need to go through with the image goes away, for the most part, after I've put it into another visual format myself. I show my therapist most of these, and she thinks they reveal a lot about the pain I'm in, and she appreciates my sharing them with her, b/c it helps her to understand how much I think about that stuff. So, if any of you like sketching, drawing, etc., I'd recommend it, and if you are on close terms with your therapists, then they might appreciate the sharing, and it would give you something to fill those weird silences

Along these lines, it seems like wherever I go, my mind automatically goes through every possible way to kill myself, should the need arise, in whatever room I'm in. Does this happen to anyone else? It makes me kind of nervous, b/c if I can't control when these thoughts come into my head, how can I control the need to do something one of these times?

So thanks for reading, and thanks for sharing.
-eyeris

marronyeux · Post by **marronyeux** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 1:20 am

I wanted to add my experience to the thread since I feel it is important to mention especially since I stopped for a long time.

possible SI trigger..
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I didn't want to upset anyone since it is really triggering for me if I think about it or if I see something..

If I recently SI'ed or whatever - and I go in the kitchen and I see a big knife on the drying rack or on top of the counter, etc. I just stay far away from it, always worrying if I will accidentally bump into it and it will fall and hurt my foot or damage my foot. It makes me have feet cramps and I feel I can't walk right since I'm so nervous about the knife. If I recently SI'ed, it is hard since I can't sleep well since I have flashbacks of my past SI and the injuries I did, and I remember the physical pain and what I did, etc. It is tough since I want it to happen again, but I can't. After a few months of no SI - the memories, the triggers - they go away.. and before .. 3 years with no SI - I honestly ALMOST forgot how SI felt.. I forgot what it feels like, the pain associated with it.. the addictive qualities of SI.. I was starting to forget about them..

But I didn't entirely forget .. since I just recently relapsed.. I hope this encourages you to try to stop since the triggers and memories associated with SI .. they won't last forever.

real · Post by **real** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:34 pm

Hi Depressedgrl666, Eyeris & Marronyeux,

Sorry to hear that you experience similar things to what I do.

*******SI/SU TRIG

eyeris wrote:*SI/ SU*

... it seems like wherever I go, my mind automatically goes through every possible way to kill myself, should the need arise, in whatever room I'm in. Does this happen to anyone else? It makes me kind of nervous, b/c if I can't control when these thoughts come into my head, how can I control the need to do something one of these times?

It's very similar for me, Eyeris. When I see things around me, I "see" images of me using them for SI or SU, or those things being used against me.

dejavu0225 · Post by **dejavu0225** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:43 am

I'll contribute-

all the triggers in place please*******
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Whenever I am extremely stressed or guilty or something happens that I hadn't anticipated. Well, here's a recent example. I am dabbling in drugs I know I need to stay away from. My guilt is so intense, but instead of quitting to relieve the guilt, which I am unwilling to do, everytime I use the drug, within moments of preparing it or taking it, I have intense visualizations of "people" meaning they are faceless, sexless entities that use knives, long pieces of heavy wood, fists, teeth, feet, and like a cartoon they can whirl like a tornado and annihilate me with hideous precision using all of their weapons against me. I "see" myself falling in small bloody pieces laying on the ground. Blood everywhere. The reverse is also true when I feel attacked or belittled or demeaned. I see myself in the strangers role. And unfortunately, it feels so good to be a super human and destroy my enemies in such a horrid and gruesome way. I don't like it and I get sick to my stomach, but it has happened almost everyday of my life since as long as I can remember and I just quit trying to fight it.

red velvet · Post by **red velvet** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:11 pm

I can relate to what everyone has been saying. I don't have this issue as much as I use to, so I thought I'd let you know how I dealt with it:

Fighting back against the images worked, but it took a realllllyyyy long time. Like the images of something or someone hurting me. I would change the image to try and stop them or to hide. The more frequently I did this the longer I could last protecting myself in the image. Now I can stop it.

A tip for realxation visualizations for me, is that I just try to maintain a black, empty space. It is easier for me to try to push out unwanted thoughts. I still find these relaxtion things difficult, and I don't so them in general, but if I have to, I just try to do a black, empty space.

Adding images has worked. I get intrusive thoughts not about myself at all, but of disturbing images from my past, from a horror movie, or from reading the paper. I try to just add flowers to the image. Since I often can't make it go away, I can try to cover up the bad stuff. Like painting a picture I start adding dandilions over top of the image.

Writing about them, writing about the feelings they cause me to have. Writing them out and changing the ending so that I have control and can change what is happening.

The more I was able to deal with the feelings they were causeing me to have, the better able I have been to deal with them.
I think someone said they did dream work to deal with it, and I found that very helpful as well.

One of the reasons I think they happen for me (which I haven't seen listed here) is to separate me from reality. Like something is going on in reality that I can't deal with. It could be something positive, but for whatever reason (like I don't think I deserve to be happy) I have to separate myself from what is going on and the intrusive thoughts come. That's what I call them, intrusive thoughts.

Another reason is from trauma, images linked to trauma's you have been through. I include scary movies in here because I saw some when I was real young that I shouldn't have seen, and they really affected me badly.

Wow I wrote a lot, I'm glad this post is here.

real · Post by **real** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:44 pm

Deja, I am so sorry that you have such a painful cycle involving the drugs, images & bad feelings about yourself. As it sounds like you already realise, they seem to feed each other. It sounds as though your images portray how you felt you have been treated during your life.

Red Velvet, you have some really good ideas & strategies. I’m very glad that they’ve helped you so much & that you found this thread to be beneficial for you.

I was the one who mentioned the dreamwork, although other people might have also. Hey, I just had an idea. I have been reading a really good book on dreams & how to work with them. The author said that if you have nightmares, to train yourself to be conscious in the nightmare so that you can confront any nightmare characters who are chasing you, hurting you, etc. Tell them to stop. Ask them why they are doing what they are doing, what they have to tell you, etc. I think that it would be good to do the same thing with these SI/SU images - ie. confront them, tell them to stop, ask why they're doing what they're doing, why they come to you, what they have to tell you, etc. I know that I only get about 5-10% of the images that I used to get since I started doing dreamwork. So, I think that the images might be some sort of messages from our psyches, like our dreams are.

He (the author) said to train yourself to talk to other dream characters, too, to get valuable information from them. You can train yourself to do this by continually affirming before sleeping every night that you will consciously be able to do these things during your dreams.

BTW, I have more info about dreams &/or nightmares if anyone is interested.

dejavu0225 · Post by **dejavu0225** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:34 pm

That is a good idea. I am currently not remembering any dreams (going on 8 or so months now), but in the past, I have woken up because in my dream I have been so scared or whatever that I have told myself not to worry that I'm dreaming...and then i wake up!

I can also be walking the dog and those images will just sneak up on me. But they happen more readily and consistently if I am stressed. And with all of my assailants or victims being faceless and sexless, how do I talk to them? They have no voice, only death.

real · Post by **real** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:07 pm

Hi Deja,

We can use the dream/nightmare strategy with the images, also. I edited my previous post to try to make it clearer. It can be used with ANYTHING in dreams or nightmares, eg. people, monsters, animals, inanimate objects, ANYTHING you want to talk to. I think that it should work with the things in the images.
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*SI/SU TRIGS
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Sometimes my images are of weapons or dangerous objects attacking me without anyone holding it (eg. an axe), or seeing myself hung from a tree. So, I am going to try talking with elements of those images.
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Hope this helps us!

dejavu0225 · Post by **dejavu0225** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:36 pm

okay real,
I'll give it a try. How about visual images? Every so often out of the corner of my eye I see something small dart away, but when I turn to look it is gone. It happens anywhere also with no apparent triggers.

real · Post by **real** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:07 pm

IDK if anyone is still interested in this thread. If so, you might be interested in an Australian movie out ATM which includes this sort of thing, called "Look Both Ways." In it, the woman imagines bad things happening – I think that she gets "images" similar to the ones we've talked about. They are shown in the movie with animated excerpts. I've only seen several reviews of it, but want to see the movie soon. I really related to the bits I saw. These included the woman or someone on the sand at a beach, then suddenly a killer whale comes out of the water, swallows the person, then goes back into the water; another one is of the woman swimming in the ocean & a shark bites her in half; & the last one I saw was the woman walking under a railway bridge & a train goes off the side of the bridge & crashes down to the ground.

real · Post by **real** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:11 pm

For a little while I haven't been so affected by the sorts of "images" I used to get, but I've been getting quite a few over the last few weeks

real · Post by **real** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:53 pm

Hi,

I saw the movie that I mentioned above, Look Both Ways. I thought it was excellent, & related VERY much to the "images" the woman gets in the movie. Besides that I thought it was a really good movie, about the difficulties of relationships, within families, etc. I recommend it.

Kaelyn · Post by **Kaelyn** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:10 pm

Stellaria wrote: Sometimes I clearly envision a new SI wound, and then it becomes very hard for me to not go ahead and make it real.

I get that too... those are the hardest to fight off.

KathyG · Post by **KathyG** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:19 am

Wow. I've been trying to read some of the older "before I was here" posts and this was so amazing. I can't believe that I am not the only one who does this.

My visuals are always about me as the victim (from others or form myself). They have been with me as long as I can remember. When I was a kid I would "play" them as a make pretend game. I learned real fast that my imagination was not like the other kid's. So, I didn't do this for long. Now that I am older, I often take the image that happens, and intentionally make a story about the image. Sometimes I may work for days to get the story just right. By the time I have come to the end of the story, it usually has an outcome that is positive. I would be rescued or not die after all and such. When I am in a depressed time, the stories are not so good. At my worst, I've found that the stories are often third person memories about the me that was.

I've also recently had some images while I've been under a great deal of stress. These have been more intense. Almost the reverse of above. I've thought about si for coping and then I have the image of the result, only it is far more carried away then anything I have ever done. These were scary enough to make me step back and reconsider. Good thing I guess.

I've not taken the time to look at some of the links earlier in this thread. (re: OCD) I think by what I read that some of this actually makes sence. I've never thought that I had an OCD condition, but, that I am somewhat obsessive with some of the things I do.

Thanks everyone for posting here. I know it is older, but I am really glad I found it.

Kathy

bus

Visual thoughts? SI, SU, violence

i know what you mean

*******SI/SU TRIG

Re: Visual thoughts? SI, SU, violence

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