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Post by fire.bird » Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:40 am

**so this is long. really long. i'm sorry it's so long. i guess i was just ... venting, a lot -- which helped a lot, in and of itself. but if anyone has the time to read through it, i'd love some feedback. i'm stuck on some of these questions, i think.**


1.)have you taken care of your physical wounds? if not, go do that now. we'll wait.

for the moment. i'm at work, so just bandaids. neosporin at home.


2.)what had happened just before?

i had just walked out of my therapy appointment. which isn't particularly descriptive, in and of itself. it really has a lot more to do with why i was in there, and what led up to it, and ... i guess, really, it has to do with the fact that i had expectations for that appointment that i was ... really attached to. and what i hoped/thought would happen didn't. and i...

yeah, i should just explain it, i guess...

i feel kind of old-hat at SI, now. i mean ... i was actively SI-ing or spending a *lot* of time and energy stopping for a decade. and that part of my life has moved on and morphed into a much happier, more stable part of my life. which rocks.

but ... i guess that maybe i'm starting to realize that instead of ever learning really great coping mechanisms, or replacement ones for SI, i just kept myself away from any situation that would stress me out enough to want to SI. specifically, school. or any situation in which i'm required to perform tasks for the approval of other people. especially if those situations involve lots of deadlines. more specifically, i kept dropping out of college, then going back, then dropping out again. this happened a lot.

so eventually, last year, i decided to just stop everything, give myself some stability for a year, not think about school, and then reevaluate when i'm more stable. so i got a job. in a law office. low-totem-pole job. and i guess i was good at it, because after 4 months my boss asked me to replace her paralegal who was leaving. which is really what i wanted in the first place, since i'm debating law school.

and i love it. but ... i've been feeling lately like i haven't felt in a long, long time. since high school. it's been a combination of things ... new job, more pressure, more to handle ... more that requires step by step, long term organization, which is *not* my strong suit ... the fact that i'm maid-of-honor in my friend's wedding ... again, long term organization and planning. and i just. can't. do it. i've been trying to figure out for years why i don't just *do* my damn work on time. why i can't keep my damn car or room or anything clean. or organize my finances. or ...

i mean, i think i give the impression of being really together. but people just have no idea. none. i'm winging it. i'm smart and i can improvise like crazy. and it gets me through. but it's not how i want to be. i want to actually be able to organize a methodical plan and then *carry it out.*

blah. i feel like i'm ranting. i'm just trying, i guess, to get at the history of this appointment today. because ... basically, for the last three months, i've been feeling more and more that i'm just not good at anything i'm doing ... my job, the wedding, basic things like keeping a nice apartment ... anything. and more and more, i've been catching myself engaged in these repeating cycles of negative self-talk. and i've been there, dammit, i've been through that already, and beaten it, and have been conscientously catching and changing that kind of negativity in myself for years, to the point where i'd really gotten past the voice in my head that says "you suck. you're horrible. you're a fake and a liar and you'll never ever ever be good enough. you should just give up. just give up and die." i'd gotten over her, dammit. and he she is back in my head.

and ... i've had this t, off and on, for four years. four years ago she diagnosed me with ADD. which i think is way overdiagnosed, and which i wasn't necessarily willing to accept. and i've been ... frankly, i haven't been very responsible with working with her. she's an ADD specialist, psychiatrist ... really, she was all about drugs, pretty immediately ... and i would try them, but then not use them as directed. or try them and then not call her for like, 6 months. off and on, hot and cold. it was a control game, i guess. i wasn't willing to commit to her and say "ok, i'll work long-term at this, and the results aren't going to be immediate and i know it." i wasn't even willing to commit to the idea of medication. i never have been. no medication -- not for ADD, not for depression, nothing.

but you know ...

i'm just not willing to feel this way again. there's something wrong with you if you can't stop that voice in your head. if you wake up and all you want to do is go back to sleep. if you start thinking that maybe if you could just sleep forever, that would be better. there's something wrong. i've been here before and dammit, i'm not going back. and this time i can't just walk out, like i kept doing in school. i like this job. they like me. i can *do* this job. and quite frankly, i need the money. i mean, you can't just walk out on your paycheck with impunity, you know?

so...

i made an appointment for today. avoided and avoided and avoided and finally did it. i made it for an hour, so we could actually talk. and i walked in and told her all of that. i told her that i knew i'd been playing around with this for years, but that i just refuse to let myself slide back down this hole again, and that i don't know how to help myself, can't do it myself, and i know that, and i'll do whatever she says. i'll try it. medication, therapy, whatever. i'll do it.

and i guess i was expecting her to say "ok ... you've ticked off depression, anxiety, obsessive thoughts ... let's try X drug. do you want to try this for the ADD? let's just try it and see how it goes."

and i *don't* think medication is the ultimate answer. i know it's not. but i guess ... i mean, the fact that medication isn't the ultimate solution has been *my* mantra, for years. it's been my excuse not to work with what she suggests. and this time i was walking in and saying, "ok, i'm in your hands." after four years. and much longer than that dealing with the problem. after over a decade of chronic cyclic depression.

and she listened. and then for the next 45 minutes, she talked to me about how the solution was in my own head. and how there's no pill for that. and all sorts of stuff. about changing the thought cycles. she wants me to go see an ADD coach. and she kept saying, over and over, that the solution is in me.

and the thing is ... i *know* that. it's my line, dammit!! that's what *i* think!!! but i ... i mean ... i can't feel this way anymore. and i hear what she's saying. and it's the same thing i've been telling myself for years. but ... here i am. i'm still here. and it's the same.


3.)what were you thinking and feeling?

as the session went on ... and as she kept talking, and talking, and i kept sitting there ... i went from thinking:

"[fire.bird], just go in and be honest, say what you came to say, don't do that thing where you're tough and you lie about how bad it is, tell her you were considering killing yourself again, just tell her, and then actually be receptive to what she has to say..."

to:

"i haven't said anything in 10 minutes..."

to:

"it's my head, not yours, dammit! ask me something!!"

to:

"[fire.bird], keep your face blank. oh, she paused ... nod like you're listening. you're bouncing your thigh muscles and it feels like your chest just shrunk 3 inches. can't breathe. this is not good. this is not a good feeling. should you tell her this is not a good feeling? {can't tell her} ok. maybe she'll stop talking. you're digging your nails into your palm {dig your nails in, good, pain, she won't be able to tell you're in pain, hah!} no, no, this is not good, do not cause yourself pain to relieve this, there's a better way ... keep your face blank..."

and as for feeling?

that's the one i always have to guess at. but ...

--nervous, but excited, before going in. proud of myself, a little. resolved. relieved that i'd made a decision that i hoped would help fix things.
--excited, or something strangley like it, when i got in there. saying what i came to say does not come naturally to me. so ... very ... keyed up, is the only way i can think to describe it. like i feel before i go onstage to sing.
--relieved, as i discovered that i was actually being honest with her. for once.
--hopeful. very hopeful. when i finished. i wanted her to say something that would ... i don't know ... fix it? is that what i wanted? did i expect her to just give me a miracle cure and say "here, honey, it'll be ok?" i don't know.
--confused, as she started talking ... because i didn't understand ... because "you might be really benefitted by this drug" has always been her line, and my line has been "no i have to do it myself. " and suddenly it sounded like we'd switched roles.
-- and then? this is always the part where i have trouble. because i don't know. i honestly don't. disappointed? or something? i know how my body felt. but i just can't connect it to an emotion word. it just feels ... blank, to me. just blank. like i'm ebbing away from myself.


4.)why did you end up hurting yourself then instead of some other time? was there an event that was the final straw? what was it?

it was as soon as i walked out of her office. literally, as soon as the door shut. i *almost* didn't know i was going to. which isn't true, of course. i knew in her office, when i started digging my nails into my palms and my feet into the sides of my shoes. i haven't felt quite like that in a really long time. that non-feeling ... that state of total disconnection ... that's the dangerous one, for me. when i can't tell what i feel anymore. when it just goes away.

how did the situation get to the final straw stage? trace it back through the events that led up to the last event. look for some point at which you could have made a different decision and not arrived at the final straw.

--me feeling progressively worse for the past three months and not doing anything about it: i could have called her a *lot* sooner. ( i was supposed to, actually -- we had a phone appointment that i broke in january.) i could have taken steps to resolve the situations that were stressing me out, themselves, a lot sooner ... like talking to my boss about being a little overwhelmed with the new job. or talking to my friend about maid-of-honor responsibilities and how i felt like that she felt like i was doing a bad job. i could have asked for help from a lot of people a long time ago.

--actually in the appointment: i could have said something. something. but here's the problem. because the things i could have said are things like "i feel like you're ignoring me" or "you keep saying that medication won't work because i don't like it, but i came in here to tell you that i'm willing to put aside my preconceived notions and just try it, like you've been telling me for a long time now, and i thought i said that, so i feel like you're not listening to me." or even "look ... can we talk about some possible medication options? i really don't feel safe feeling this way any longer, and i know all these issues really are about me deciding to or not to live my life this way any more, and i'll work on that, but i've been walking around thinking about killing myself and i don't want to feel that way anymore *right now*. can i have some meds?"

but ... i know i wouldn't say any of those things, if i had it to do over again. i physically wouldn't be able to get the words out of my mouth. and i don't know why. except that it feels ...

agh. i don't know. i always get stuck there. why couldn't i have said that?

--i could have recognized how i was feeling in the appointment, realized it was dangerous, and decided to address it with myself immediately when stepping out of the office. i could have just decided that, since i knew i'd be in a dangerous place walking out of there, i would do something immediately to help myself, take care of myself. walking outside for 10 minutes or so would have done it, i think. walking and breathing.

but here's the other part of it the problem ... it was on my lunch break, and i was late, because she'd been running late. we were sitting there talking about how my job is stressing me out because i feel like i'm not good enough, can't organize, am never on time ... and here i am, late back from my appointment at lunch, which i didn't tell anyone about because i'm embarassed by how many doctors' appointments i seems to go to, so they wouldn't have a reason to know why i was late. so by the time i got out of there, i was rushing to get back to work.


5.)were there outside factors like drugs, alcohol, being off your meds, lack of sleep, etc? can you address those in the future? how?

aforementioned job stress. lack of sleep because of aforementioned job stress ... i keep waking up in the middle of the night worrying about it. [i just typed "how pathetic is that?" and then deleted it. 'cause that doesn't do anybody any good. but that's the kind of thing that just keeps creeping in, these days.]

i can address them by addressing this job-stress-panick-worry-don't sleep-worse at job - stress more cycle. but ...

that's what i went in there to do!!! :oops:

6.)what other ways of coping did you try besides self-harm? how well did they work?

in the appointment, once, at the beginning, when i realized how this was beginning to make me feel, i tried to say something ... insert something ... but. it sort of got rolled over. and after that ... i guess i didn't try very hard. i've been fighting the urge for months, now, and i guess i just ... gave up, in the appointment.

7.)in retrospect, are there coping methods that you now realize might have helped? what were they?

i needed to talk to her. plain and simple. i needed to tell her ...

... ack! i keep getting here, with this question. tell her what? what could i actually have said that would explain ... what? explain what? that the appointment was making me feel like cutting myself? how do you explain that, anyway?

but beyond that ... i think it really would have helped if i'd just taken the time to acknowledge how i felt, that it was serious, and that i needed to do something about it. like take a walk outside on this beautiful spring day. that would have helped a lot.

8.)name at least two things you will do to help yourself remember those coping methods if you end up in this situation again.

i should say, here, that i'll be more honest in an appointment if it's beginning to make me feel that way. but honestly? i don't know if i'll do that. and i don't know why not. it's like there's this big brick wall when i think about doing it. it just won't work.

what i *can* do, though, is next time i go to a doctor's appointment at lunch -- especially a t appointment -- i'll say that's where i'm going. i'll plan it a little better. so that i won't compound everything by being stressed and late when i get out of the appointment. so that i'll have some time to take the time to breathe.


9.)how do you feel about the situation that led to self-harm now? is it resolved? if not, what are some steps you might take toward resolution?

no. none of it's resolved, really. but i feel better writing it out. and i already decided that tonight i'm going to put this aside, go home, eat some chocolate, watch a movie i love, do a load of laundry so i'll stop freaking out about how dirty the apartment is, go to bed early, and then wake and think about it again. maybe i'll call her back and tell her about this, i'm not sure. but for right this moment, i'm going to put it aside and go do some things that are guaranteed to be calming, and soothing, and good.

10.)are you likely to be in that emotional place again? how will you recognize it when you're in that situation?

well ... i'm not exactly sure. in a way, this is new territory, for me ... because even though the feeling is *very* familiar ... it's familiar from a point in my life that i'm past, now. and i really am past it. 10 years ago, 5 years ago, maybe even 2 years ago, i wouldn't have been able to shake that nothing-feeling once i got in it. it would have just ... lingered, and been this big hole. but today ... was different. i felt that way. and cut. and now i feel confused, and a little frustrated, but not *angry* with myself, or still numb, the way i would have years ago. now i'm just ... trying to figure out how to fix this whole big situation. because that emotional place is probably going to hang around until i address the basic stressors that are causing it, and what's causing them, and how to change ... whatever i need to change. and then implement that change. which sounds so pat and easy and tidy, doesn't it? :roll:


11.)what will you try before you resort to self-harm if you're in that situation again? list three specific things you will commit to trying.

1.) i will stop. and make myself breathe. and acknowledge the feeling. before just instinctively acting on it.
2.) i will decide what i can do *in that instant* to ease the feeling. it will probably be something along the lines of "go take a walk outside."
3.) i will take that walk.


thanks, in advance, for any comments anyone has. i know that was sort of a monster post.

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Post by plantt » Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:12 am

*nods* i've done that before too... been ready to go ahead & give in & do whatever... if it's suggested just *once* more... & then it's not.
she wants me to go see an ADD coach. and she kept saying, over and over, that the solution is in me.
*nods* even with therapy & meds... the solution is still in you... as *you* would be the one doing therapy... & *you* would be the one taking the meds.

you mentioned being willing to do therapy... how do you see that as different from an ADD coach?
i've been through that already, and beaten it, and have been conscientously catching and changing that kind of negativity in myself for years, to the point where i'd really gotten past the voice in my head
how did you get through it that time?
do you think there could be different things to add in... ways to look at it... ways to deal with it... that you didn't do last time?
it was a control game
*nods* do you think it's something about her personally... or the situation in general?
why couldn't i have said that?
*nods* why? would it help... to write it out & then read it... or have it there to read if you need to? to call & tell her those things *now*? to write it out & mail it? that's something you can *still* do... you cannot change the fact that you si'ed... you cannot undo that... you can go ahead & get across to her what you need to.

what are the ways that you deal with the stress that's in your life right now? are there things you could add in that might help?
i needed to talk to her. plain and simple. i needed to tell her ...
so do it :) tell her 'i want to try therapy & meds. i'm willing to try the ADD coach... i don't think that's enough right now. i'm unwilling to keep sliding & i want to try therapy & meds as well as the ADD coach. when you tell me that meds won't work because i don't like them... & what i'm saying is that i'm willing to use them properly now... i feel ignored. i feel like you're not listening... etc'

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Post by pretty » Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:58 pm

Hey :)
fire.bird wrote:but ... i guess that maybe i'm starting to realize that instead of ever learning really great coping mechanisms, or replacement ones for SI, i just kept myself away from any situation that would stress me out enough to want to SI. specifically, school. or any situation in which i'm required to perform tasks for the approval of other people. especially if those situations involve lots of deadlines. more specifically, i kept dropping out of college, then going back, then dropping out again. this happened a lot.
I can really really relate to this. And it doesn't solve anything at all. It's good that you realise it though, that's a great place to start from. It's time to start learning those coping skills maybe. Which brings me to...

fire.bird wrote:now i'm just ... trying to figure out how to fix this whole big situation. because that emotional place is probably going to hang around until i address the basic stressors that are causing it, and what's causing them, and how to change ... whatever i need to change. and then implement that change. which sounds so pat and easy and tidy, doesn't it?
It doesn't sound at all easy. It's hard, really hard, but it's not beyond you, you can do it. One step at a time. Figure out what you need to change and then start working on it. Give yourself time and you'll get there.

It sounds like you learned a lot of useful things from this, like to give yourself time to recover and do something soothing after a t appointment.

I second platt's suggestion of writing stuff out and giving it to your t. I think you need to tell her this stuff, and that's a way I know would work for me.

You need to remember how you felt before your t appointment, that you're not willing to carry on like this and that you're willing to do what's necessary to change things. If you can remember that, it might be easier to talk to do what you need to to get out of this place.

Sorry if none of that was helpful. My brain feels like mush.
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"if I don't let myself be happy now, then when?"' - jimmy eat world

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Post by fire.bird » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:44 pm

thank you, both, for your thoughtful replies ... i'm sort of chewing on this whole thing, and on what you both said, at the moment. (and pretty, as far as i can tell, what you say is *always* helpful, no matter what state of sleeplessness-or-not you're in!)

i think i'm going to keep on mulling through the holiday weekend, and then come back and post on monday. just wanted to pop in and say i read your responses, and thanks for them.

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Post by silenceBROKEN » Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:20 am

1:20 AM... :roll: so basically i'm not going to make sense.

firebird,

you know i care about you, as you're always been there for me. i think it's great that you were able to analyze in-depth what exactly had you self injure. now you just have to work on those things. i wish i could post more... but my brain is total mush (even mushier than notevenpretty's brain) :o . i'm thinking of you. please take care.
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one slip in November 1010.

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Post by fire.bird » Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:17 pm

*sigh*

so perhaps the difficulty i'm having in responding to this post again is indicative of the problem itself.

i've been thinking about this post, and your replies, for a few weeks now. and this:
notevenpretty wrote:I second platt's suggestion of writing stuff out and giving it to your t. I think you need to tell her this stuff, and that's a way I know would work for me.
... is still dead on. (and it was quite helpful, actually, pretty! :) ) you're both right. i do need to tell her. i keep writing that letter/having that conversation in my head. and then i just ... don't do it.
plantt wrote:*nods* i've done that before too... been ready to go ahead & give in & do whatever... if it's suggested just *once* more... & then it's not.
plantt ... how have you gotten past this one, in the past? have you ever been able to make yourself go back in in this situation and suggest whatever it was again, yourself? are there any specific ... tricks or tools or exercises or ... anything, that you used to help you?
plantt wrote:*nods* even with therapy & meds... the solution is still in you... as *you* would be the one doing therapy... & *you* would be the one taking the meds.
yupyup. exactly. i absolutely know this. it's funny ... i'm torn, i think, between the idea that she gave up on me too fast, that this time i was ready to commit *myself* to taking meds, regularly going to therapy, whatever ... and the idea that this reaction, this thinking that she gave up on me and isn't suggesting the right thing this time, is just one more example of me fighting her judgment.
plantt wrote:you mentioned being willing to do therapy... how do you see that as different from an ADD coach?
i've done ADD coaching before, over a year ago, again at the behest of this psychiatrist. it's not therapy, really... more like life planning. you go in with your calendar and lists of what you have to do, and lay it all out, and the ADD coach asks a list of questions designed to help you organize and prioritize. first, she usually asks what the priority on these is ... what exactly has to be done by when. and then you go through task number 1, and break it down ... what steps you have to take, whether you can do them, whether you yourself have to do all of them or can you delegate, how long they'll take, what's been getting in the way, how you can resolve what's been getting in the way ... etc. it's like a project flow-chart.

and ... it can be really helpful. i can see how it would be helpful, anyway, if i could just commit to it. but frankly, the entire process just ovewhelms me. talking through everything like that just leaves me ... totally freaked out. which is a problem, i know. but i can never quite seem to express how much of a problem it is. i mean, i'm not functioning at the level i'd like to be. and i know that's why the t keeps suggesting the ADD coach. but every time i walk out of meetings with her i'm functioning at a level lesser than when i went in, because i usually walk out and go hide all night and try not to think of doing bad things to myself because of everything i don't have accomplished yet.

which is probably another thing on the list of things i need to talk to her about.

i think the problem is that i'm not sure how to start.
notevenpretty wrote:You need to remember how you felt before your t appointment, that you're not willing to carry on like this and that you're willing to do what's necessary to change things. If you can remember that, it might be easier to talk to do what you need to to get out of this place.
that's true. that's very very true, and a good reminder.

ok. ok, so i need to talk to her about what happened. i know i know i know that i do.

does anyone have any suggestions for a good first line? conversation opener? i mean ... do you think if i said "so i was thinking maybe i'd like to try anti-depressants" ... that it would sound like i'm just ... pill shopping, or something? i've just never in my life *asked* to be on meds. and i don't know how.

dammit. i'm trying to learn how to start not avoiding things, in general, and this is a really good place to start. so ... here we go. non-avoidance. engage the problem. i can do that, right?

*scaryscaryscary*


thanks again, plantt and pretty and silence, for the replies.

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Post by pretty » Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:52 pm

fire.bird wrote: i mean ... do you think if i said "so i was thinking maybe i'd like to try anti-depressants" ... that it would sound like i'm just ... pill shopping, or something? i've just never in my life *asked* to be on meds. and i don't know how.
That sounds fine to me, I mean, she's a therapist, she knows you at least a bit.

If it were me, I'd say something like, "You know we were talking about meds, and you said you wanted to try other stuff, well, I've thought about it a lot and I think they might be the best option for me right now. I'm willing to keep working on everything, but I'm at a point where I'd like to give them a try."

But maybe I'm just too wordy ;)
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Post by plantt » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:32 pm

how have you gotten past this one, in the past? have you ever been able to make yourself go back in in this situation and suggest whatever it was again, yourself? are there any specific ... tricks or tools or exercises or ... anything, that you used to help you?
i have... yeah. for me... it's been a matter of acknowledging that the reason i didn't go along with the idea to begin with was because i was being stubborn/avoidant/afraid/etc... & acknowledging that i cannot just wait until it got easier or they suggested it again because those may not happen... & that to get what i want out of life i need to do what's most effective rather than what's easiest/less scary/avoidant... i'm not always able to talk myself though that. often it's a matter of just doing it.
i mean ... do you think if i said "so i was thinking maybe i'd like to try anti-depressants" ... that it would sound like i'm just ... pill shopping, or something?
no... if you were pill shopping i'd bet you'd have started meds ages ago. & some people do very well with only meds... 'pill shopping' isn't always a bad thing. but i don't think it sounds like you are.

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