Some before thoughts, parts 1-6

[Stellaria]

Instead of making new threads, I'll add any "befores" to this one

<hr>

* Why do I feel I need to hurt myself? What has brought me to this point?
I feel out of control, like I'm losing myself. I think there may be 2-3 different things behind it.

- The gyno appointment yesterday. It went ok and at first I was proud of myself for going, but now I'm feeling more and more disturbed by it. I feel invaded, and angry with myself for reacting that way. Also, I feel this weird embarrassment that is hard to describe, as if I made a fool of myself in front of the nurses, when I know logically that I didn't actually do that.

- Comfort eating. It's probably med related, but I get angry with myself for not being able to control it.

- Going back to work rehab today, first day after the holidays, which rubs in my face that I don't have any proper plans for the future.

* Have I been here before? What did I do to deal with it? How did I feel then?
Yes. But I can't really recall what I have done about it. Sometimes I have SI'ed, but I must have handled it differently many times. Just soldiered on, I suppose. I know the SI did give me that sense of control, however briefly.

* What I have done to ease this discomfort so far? What else can I do that won't hurt me?
Wrote about it. Saw friends yesterday. Walks outside in the cold. Some housework like bake bread, do dishes and laundry to feel more useful. Talked to b/f. Listened to music and did some jigsaw puzzle to distract. Took a nap this afternoon.

I'm going to the gym now.

* How do I feel right now?
Unreal. Angry with myself.

* How will I feel when I am hurting myself?
Numb. In control.

* How will I feel after hurting myself? How will I feel tomorrow {morning} evening (I'm more likely to actually do it in the morning)?
I'm not sure. Probably disappointed. Maybe relieved. If I do it enough to warrant medical care I will probably feel some relief at first, because the out-of-control I'm fearing will actually happen, I will have people push me around, which means I don't have to wait for it to possibly happen. Bring it on rather than live in insecurity, if that makes any sense. After a few hours I will be very angry with myself for putting myself in such a situation, and for hurting my b/f in the process.


* Can I avoid this stressor, or deal with it better in the future?
Avoid - I don't think so. I should make health checkups from time to time. I don't know how to do that differently. As for the eating, I suppose I should discuss it with my pdoc at next appointment. When it comes to future plans, I'm in a dead-end it seems. Talking about it, thinking about it, trying to look into options, nothing has gotten me anywhere (other than more depressed). I don't know.

* Do I need to hurt myself?
No, it would make things worse.
I don't know what I need though.[/i]

[Tiarin]

The gyno appointment yesterday. It went ok and at first I was proud of myself for going, but now I'm feeling more and more disturbed by it. I feel invaded, and angry with myself for reacting that way.

i'm curious— why it isn't okay for you to have a reaction of feeling invaded? i guess it sounds like an understandable response to me.

i also noticed that you mentioned a lot about control. what does it mean to you to be in control? how does it feel? i'm wondering if there are places in your life where you feel more in control, where you could go when you were needing that sense.

good luck with holding on to that knowledge that si will only make things worse. i'm sending lots of good thoughts.

dragonfly

[Stellaria]

Thank you for your help, SDF. Those are good questions.

why it isn't okay for you to have a reaction of feeling invaded?

Some idea that I should be "above" that. To have an emotional reaction is weakness, is dangerous, it means people can get to you.

I know, I know, I wouldn't condemn another person for reacting in a perfectly understandable manner. It suddenly becomes a totally different matter when it is about me and my fears.

i also noticed that you mentioned a lot about control. what does it mean to you to be in control?

It's funny, I notice now when I think about this, and about what Smeagol asked me in my place thread, how very physical it is. (At least right now, at other times it can be more mental, deciding over what I do in life, that sort of thing, and these things mesh.)

I want to decide what happens to my body.

Which is an illusion, as there are physical processes I can't consciously control, I can't avoid death, I can't even be 100 % certain that I will not get physically attacked by others.

how does it feel?

Safe.

There's a story here, and now I'm furious because I have thought a number of times that it is behind me, and then it comes back to bite me again. I don't think I have really connected it to the SI before though. Just as generally belonging in the category "some not so nice things that happened", not that there could be a more direct connection.

I can't explain the whole thing, but I used to be part of a group for spiritual development, and one of the first issues you were supposed to address was control. It was assumed that you were out of control, even over your own self and body, and had to do various exercises to learn to gain enough control to advance spiritually. These exercises were done one-on-one with an "advisor" who was supposed to help you find control by first taking over control. He would tell you to do some simple physical acts (like touch the wall), repeated over and over until you supposedly had an insight. He had to make you follow the command, even if it meant physically making you do it, wrestling you across the room. I had to do these exercises for probably something close to 100 hours... it was during that time I had my first real mental crash.

Gah, I get completely spinny thinking about it. It makes my skin crawl to think of those hands pulling me in different directions, and at the same time I feel guilty for taking issue, when I agreed to do it in the first place.

i'm wondering if there are places in your life where you feel more in control, where you could go when you were needing that sense.

The closest I get is to lock myself up in my bedroom, with nobody around other than my b/f - I trust him fairly much to not hurt me. That gets a bit claustrophobic, though.

[Wendy]

You don't have to be angry with yourself for agreeing to it. People do some very irresponsible things some times and betray other people's trust in them. I've seen the kind of thing you are talking about and it can be emotionally damaging because the abuse reenactment it is for so many. I'm sorry that happened.

As far as the gyn visit went -- I can relate. Today I had a mammogram that I'd been putting off for fear of radiation. She did it wrong the first time and had to redo all four shots. I was stand there while she did this and that to me and just trying not to cry, but feeling very little. Our feelings are okay, even if they're not always much fun to deal with. I hope you stay safe and are gentle emotionally and physically with yourself.

Wendy

[Stellaria]

Thank you Wendy. I can logically to some extent understand that there are background reasons why I would react strongly to being physically manipulated (especially by a man). You could say I can forgive myself in theory, but in practice my emotions surrounding it all are still very negative towards self. Still some work to do, huh.

I'm sorry the mammogram was so uncomfortable for you. You were brave to do it anyway. It's a pity that crying in public is frowned upon in our society, it would maybe be better if we were allowed to cry in those situations...

SI is still on my mind but not at a level where I'm about to act on it, I'm ok for now.

[Wendy]

Glad to here it -- take care!
Wendy

[Stellaria]

2nd incident.

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* Why do I feel I need to hurt myself? What has brought me to this point?

Had two drinks last night - enough to bring destructive thoughts to the forefront.

* Have I been here before? What did I do to deal with it? How did I feel then?

Yes, especially when drinking while on meds (I remember the same thing happening on Tegretol for example, just a little alcohol was enough to make me depressed)

Sometimes I have dealt with it by going ahead and hurt myself, most of the times I have gone to bed and tried to sleep it off.

From what I remember, if I didn't SI, I would often feel like this the next day - not as disorganized as while under the influence, but with the destructive thoughts still playing in my mind.

* What I have done to ease this discomfort so far? What else can I do that won't hurt me?

Last night, I stopped drinking, washed my face with cold water, laid down on the cold floor for a while, went to sleep.

Right now I'm writing this down, hoping to get some of it out of my head the way it sometimes works when I write about stuff.

I can go take a hot shower and get dressed, take a walk or other distractions. I can't think of how to deal with these thoughts in a safe way. Maybe I can talk to b/f later when he wakes up, but I'm a little hesitant to whine about this again when he can't do anything about it. I can write about it in my Swedish journal and show T later. Right now, I can distract for the rest of today.

* How do I feel right now?

Like my mind is fractioned, different "voices" screaming at me.

* How will I feel when I am hurting myself?

Focused.

* How will I feel after hurting myself? How will I feel tomorrow {morning} evening (I'm more likely to actually do it in the morning)?

Relieved to not fight anymore.
Strong.
Abandoned by myself.
Guilty.
Angry.
Pick'n'mix.

* Can I avoid this stressor, or deal with it better in the future?

Ehrm, no alcohol. At all.

* Do I need to hurt myself?

Yes. No. Not right now.

[Tiarin]

just wanted to say that i'm still reading, and cheering for the side of you that doesn't want to be self-destructive.

dragonfly

[Stellaria]

Dragonfly, thank you.

I'm feeling a little confused right now. One thing reasoning with myself and writing out does, is highlight the wide gap between what I logically know I should and what I desire. That's what my wish to SI feels like, an emotional need from my core being. It's not only a physical sensation I crave, but the whole package. I can't see clearly enough to understand exactly what it is I'm looking for though.

I can still stop myself atm from doing it. It hurts, but life hurts sometimes.

[limestone]

...Abandoned by myself....That's what my wish to SI feels like, an emotional need from my core being. ... It hurts, but life hurts sometimes.

hi

I thought it interesting that you mentioned you might feel abandoned by yourself and then posted about si giving you something fundamental. How could you try to fill the gap so to speak i.e. create a relationship with yourself that prevents feelings of abandonment? this emotional need, can you say more about it? you're right life does hurt sometimes - besides si, what other ways have you found that help to express that? and/or what things would you be willing to try in the future for the next time if you feel similar to what you described?

[Stellaria]

Thank you for some very good questions, Limestone. Not sure I can answer, but...

I thought it interesting that you mentioned you might feel abandoned by yourself and then posted about si giving you something fundamental. How could you try to fill the gap so to speak i.e. create a relationship with yourself that prevents feelings of abandonment? this emotional need, can you say more about it?

I find the gap very hard to fill. There's a part of me that gets scared and upset when I hurt myself and wants to be protected from it, and another part that feels badly ignored when I don't hurt myself. I don't know how to describe it, it's all me of course but depending on what mood and frame of thought I'm in, I identify more with one or the other of these parts. I can't eradicate either bit, and I don't know how to make them get along.

At least some of the push I'm feeling to SI now is the part who absolutly wants to do it, who doesn't want to be silenced. But I can't give her free reign, she's f****** crazy. I don't know how to be angry and hateful without being destructive. Is that even possible?

you're right life does hurt sometimes - besides si, what other ways have you found that help to express that? and/or what things would you be willing to try in the future for the next time if you feel similar to what you described?

I can cry, yell along to angry music, run, throw sticks outside, write... I actually do those things sometimes. It just doesn't seem enough. Have no bright ideas.

I'm holding on for the sake of my boyfriend, really.

[Stellaria]

3rd incident.

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* Why do I feel I need to hurt myself? What has brought me to this point?

Tired and emotional after meeting with friend and T appointment. Wasn't feeling bad bad, more sensitive. Was hanging out with b/f and getting intimate when he started to tell me how much I mean to him and how much he loves me, I don't even remember exactly what he said. Could not stand it. Shame, fear, anger. In my head I was hearing him say I have to die, I know that's not what he said, I was just confused. He tried to touch me and hug me to make me feel better and I could "feel" his hands going through my arms, and I could not speak or move. Don't remember, think I must have drifted off to sleep for a while.

I'm so ashamed for not being able to take it when someone close to me says positive things about me, for treating my b/f like a crook when he's only trying to be good to me.

* Have I been here before? What did I do to deal with it? How did I feel then?

Yes. Hard to remember, things get confused. Tranquilizers, being left alone, sleep is what helps short term.

* What I have done to ease this discomfort so far? What else can I do that won't hurt me?

Slept some, though only got two hours. Had some milk chai and toast. Talked some to b/f but not much, can't find words.

Don't have any tranquilizers but I could lie down and get some rest whether I sleep or not.

* How do I feel right now?

Ashamed. Scared.

* How will I feel when I am hurting myself?

That things don't matter.

* How will I feel after hurting myself? How will I feel tomorrow {morning} evening (I'm more likely to actually do it in the morning)?

Very regretful that I mess things up for b/f.

* Can I avoid this stressor, or deal with it better in the future?

Avoid, no. Deal with, don't know.

* Do I need to hurt myself?

No.

[Stellaria]

4th incident.

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* Why do I feel I need to hurt myself? What has brought me to this point?

Feeling quietly desperate. I don't know if it's the med that stopped working or only due to stressors. One of my sons has some problems, there is a situation with their dad and I feel inadequate and out of ideas on what I should do to help, and out of energy to do it anyway. I'm starting to feel low again like I did 2-3-4 months ago - it's not as bad yet but I'm scared of going in that direction. Not just restless and sleeping poorly, but sad, lethargic and a dash of suicidal thoughts. I feel very ashamed of the latter, since it seems incredibly selfish and irresponsible. I know some people including my own kids would be very hurt, so why can't I just stop thinking about it?

Had a bad T session yesterday, I had so much problems talking. It's like I move in and out of this state where I don't seem to find words, or if I manage to express something in my head I don't know how to get it out. Things get all blurry and I feel scared, angry at whoever put me in this situation, angry at myself for not just snapping out of it. T was stating how quickly I descend into self-hate, describing how he perceived things, and I guess it was a bit too close to home for me to take it. And I started to blame myself even more for being so negative, etc.

Recieved a copy of a study in the mail which I was interviewed for. I haven't really read it, but it reminded me of some old shit.

* Have I been here before? What did I do to deal with it? How did I feel then?

So many times, I find it hard to think of a specific incident. I guess I have done anything from talking it over with someone (T, b/f, friend) to SI or OD. Sometimes talking or writing about it helps, sometimes distracting until the worst passes helps, sometimes SI helps, sometimes meds help.

* What I have done to ease this discomfort so far? What else can I do that won't hurt me?

Had a nice lunch after the T session, walked by the sea, went to the gym, talked to close friend on the phone (though mostly about other things), did laundry, slept . Now I'm making myself write this.

I could talk to b/f tomorrow. Somehow I'm reluctant to. I don't think it's going to help, and I'm thinking that if I end up hurting myself anyway he might feel responsible.

I should see T again tuesday, but I don't know what good that will do. I'm not even sure what it is I'm reacting to.

So I'm left with distracting.

* How do I feel right now?

Hopeless. Ugly. Wrong.

* How will I feel when I am hurting myself?

Stronger. Careless. Numb.

* How will I feel after hurting myself? How will I feel tomorrow {morning} evening (I'm more likely to actually do it in the morning)?

Maybe relieved. Maybe just the same as now.

* Can I avoid this stressor, or deal with it better in the future?

Not really avoid. The situation with my son is real enough and needs be dealt with. That I find it hard to talk sometimes when I'm upset - it's gotten better, but I'm still in mystery about it. I need to learn to spot it earlier so I can take a timeout from the situation before I turn mute. Being reminded of the past is going to happen. If there is a problem with med, maybe that can be sorted with pdoc.

* Do I need to hurt myself?

I can't. I have an important meeting to attend monday, I can't have bandages all over or risk being put IP.

[Wendy]

Stellaria,

I don't have answers for you, but I can relate to what you're saying. I also see you struggling very hard to take good care of yourself despite your urges and pain and I think that is really terrific. I hope you give yourself credit for that. I just read over your last three postings and want to respond to the last two. I can totally relate to what you said about what happens in your counselor's office. Happens to me a lot, especially lately and I know how hard it is to get so scared and shut down and then not even know why or what's trying to come up. It's really difficult and it's hard to let go of once you leave the counseling session, so I encourage you to cut yourself some slack that you're doing well with a very hard situation! Secondly, I was reading about how you closed off when your boyfriend said kind things and held you. I was wondering if in your past someone has uttered kind words and then hurt you. You might have learned to associated pain and fear with kind (but in the past maybe not genuine) words. Just a thought. Hope you're doing okay -- I'm rooting for you! Have you ever brought your before posts to your counselor -- might be good material for times when you feel shut down.

Take gentle care
Wendy

[Stellaria]

Wendy, it's very sweet of you to take the time to reply. I'm sorry that you are struggling, too.

The shutting down - it's something I have battled with for 20+ years and at least it's not as bad now as it has gotten at times. It has to do with feeling overwhelmed and threatened and unable to get out of a situation, although it doesn't have to be a situation that really *is* a threat, it can just be something that stirs those feelings. For example to be questioned or physically grabbed, especially while in a confined space like a room with the door closed.

I have brought posts to therapy before from my journal in Swedish, which has covered some similar stuff as what I have written here. It's good for when I'm avoiding stuff or just get a bit stuck. Don't think it would help when I really shut down, I can hardly ever talk my way out of those situations, need to be alone for half an hour or more to put myself back together.

I was wondering if in your past someone has uttered kind words and then hurt you.

It's funny, I find it incredibly hard right now to think of having been hurt by anyone. I can admit to having been in some less than optimum situations, but often I don't like to say I have been hurt. Sometimes my b/f or my T has expressed sympathy for some thing or other from my past, and a lot of the time that makes me so uncomfortable, I immediately want to make nothing of it, point out that lots of people have been through worse, that I probably caused the problem myself anyway, etc. I'm scared of being unfair to people, of blaming others for things I was responsible for myself.

Am struggling at the moment with the general idea of being in therapy and taking meds, I don't feel very deserving of help. I guess "getting better" seems much too unreal. Oh well, I guess a goal that is tangible enough for now is "keep myself alive" so I will go with that. This could be just a bout of depression, they come and go...

*sends sunflower seed bread fresh from the oven to anyone reading*

[limestone]

....but often I don't like to say I have been hurt. Sometimes my b/f or my T has expressed sympathy for some thing or other from my past, and a lot of the time that makes me so uncomfortable, ..

this bit that you wrote ^^ are you saying you feel uncomfortable with validation from others and yourself? What will happen if you do say you have been hurt?

I don't know how to be angry and hateful without being destructive. Is that even possible?

in your other post ^^ I think it's possible but what would happen if it was possible for you to feel both?

[Stellaria]

Limestone, thank you for taking the time to comment.

I was going to reply but it would only have been on the negative side of things. That's not a reflection of your questions. I'm in a low spot today, hurting from fever and the flu, hurting inside from feeling hopeless about the future. I'm not very receptive to help so I'll just leave this for the moment.

[Stellaria]

I should go back and at least try to look at these questions.

....but often I don't like to say I have been hurt. Sometimes my b/f or my T has expressed sympathy for some thing or other from my past, and a lot of the time that makes me so uncomfortable, ..

this bit that you wrote ^^ are you saying you feel uncomfortable with validation from others and yourself? What will happen if you do say you have been hurt?

I suppose it has to do with denial - when you put words to something and say "xyz happened", it becomes more real in your mind. And if other people express some agreement that xyz could have happened, it becomes even more real. If there is acknowledgement that a situation was painful, it's harder to run from the pain. And the questions - why did xyz happen, did I make it happen myself, should I have done things differently? Or worse, was I really powerless to keep xyz from happening? I kind of prefer to simply think any bad stuff was my own fault, because it creates some illusion of safety. It sucks to view yourself as flawed, evil even, but it beats having to accept that life is not all under my control.

So, bottom line is fear.

I think I have changed a bit though, because now at least I have said that some things did happen, I'm not totally denying everything. Still don't feel prepared to accept many parts of me and my past, still try to run away when they come back to haunt me.

I don't know how to be angry and hateful without being destructive. Is that even possible?

in your other post ^^ I think it's possible but what would happen if it was possible for you to feel both?

On one level I'm afraid of getting mad with people without excellent and waterproof reasons, because I think it would make me a bad and judgemental person.

And in the back of that I'm scared of losing control and actually hurting someone, also physically. Scared of killing myself, too. Even if I never got into fights or anything, I feel capable of violence.

There's a lack of trust in myself, that I can stay safe even when I'm strongly emotional.

Yuk, these are hard to look at but it helps make sense of some things. Thanks again.

[Stellaria]

I should do another one of these...

*** OD
*
*
*
*


5th incident.

<hr>

* Why do I feel I need to hurt myself? What has brought me to this point?

I'm fed up with feeling anxious, restless, with hurting inside and not understanding why.

Find it hard to talk to people close to me, esp. my b/f. When I try, he starts to tell me how much he cares and what I mean to him, and I end up feeling horribly guilty for having the thoughts I'm having when doing it would hurt him so much. So now I don't feel I can tell him what's really in my head.

* Have I been here before? What did I do to deal with it? How did I feel then?

I think I have either been lucky and managed to have an open conversation with someone, which has eased some of the strain and made me feel less alone and disconnected, or I have gone ahead and done something destructive, which has also momentarily eased the tension.

* What I have done to ease this discomfort so far? What else can I do that won't hurt me?

I did try a few times to talk with b/f. I have written a little in my Swedish journal. Have tried excercise, walks in the cold, distractions like cooking and tv. They keep me going through the moment. I can keep distracting myself and hope this mood will change.

* How do I feel right now?

I really really really want to escape. Not be aware. Thinking of an overdose.

* How will I feel when I am hurting myself?

Floating into numbness.

* How will I feel after hurting myself? How will I feel tomorrow {morning} evening (I'm more likely to actually do it in the morning)?

I would soon feel physically uncomfortable, maybe need to go to the hospital, drink charcoal, field a thousand questions, risk messing up my body. I want that moment of disappearing into not caring, but I don't want the other consequences...

* Can I avoid this stressor, or deal with it better in the future?

I don't know. I'm sure I need to change something but don't know right now what. What I'm doing at the moment to at least make it harder for me to act rashly is to not keep a lot of pills at home, and not ask for prescriptions for the most tempting ones.

* Do I need to hurt myself?

I think I can manage without right now. But something has to change.

[Stellaria]

6th incident.

<hr>
* Why do I feel I need to hurt myself? What has brought me to this point?

I want to be rid of this tension that has been building for weeks, if only for the moment. Still restless + tired, every day. Destructive images in my head. I'm getting so fed up with hanging in there. I think about having to endure these feelings over and over, forever, and it freaks me out. I could do it if I knew it was for 5 days or whatever, but I fear that it is something like chronic pain, something I will have to live with. I would rather have physical pain than feel like this (and I don't say that lightly, I did have a chronic pain condition for a few years)

I'm not sure what is behind it. If it's because of stress over the situation with my son, or having been reminded about a touchy part of my past. That it's winter (bad time of year). That I haven't been able to see T for some weeks. The medication is a suspect, but I simply can't bring myself to call pdoc, I have a scheduled appointment with him next week. Maybe it's just me, how I am.

* Have I been here before? What did I do to deal with it? How did I feel then?

Yes. Endure. Until I eventually blew up some way or other. Then I felt some kind of relief, or just numb, then guilt for messing up.

* What I have done to ease this discomfort so far? What else can I do that won't hurt me?

Distractions. Computer, housework, jigsaw puzzle, tv, walks, eat, shower and get dressed properly even when I don't feel like. Asked b/f to take me out for a long drive today to get out of the house. Don't know what to do other than more of the same.

* How do I feel right now?

Like crawling out of my skin. Hopeless. Unreal.

* How will I feel when I am hurting myself?

Numb.

* How will I feel after hurting myself? How will I feel tomorrow {morning} evening (I'm more likely to actually do it in the morning)?

Free for a little while. Maybe back in the same place after that.

* Can I avoid this stressor, or deal with it better in the future?

I don't know.

* Do I need to hurt myself?

I don't know what I need.