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More Before Questions To Answer

• Why do I feel I need to hurt myself? What has brought me to this point?
  It's hard for me to point at exactly what makes me have these thoughts. I woke up this morning, and as so many times before I saw SI images and felt physical sensations.
  
  In the beginning of the week, I was hypomanic for a few days, but on the insistance of my husband (and agreement with my doctor) I took some zyprexa which often works to "kill it" in its tracks. Now I'm more or less normal, a bit tired after that burst of energy.
  
  External things are fine or better than fine. Marriage, family, friends, money.
  
  Something that really does bother me is how tired everything makes me, mentally. My threshold for stimuli is so low (that is not really new, it's been like this for years and doesn't seem to improve). Going to the supermarket overwhelms me. Meeting people (even one-on-one) overwhelms me. It doesn't feel like anxiety and I'm not afraid of people. More like my brain shutting down. Then I have a few brief days of hypomania (not as strong or frequent now when I have better meds, but still happens) - and I can walk for hours in a busy city, be with other people the whole day long or read a full book in one day. Like a light switch turning on. Then it's back to the usual. It's such a strange experience.
  
  Most nights I also get SI thoughts when I try to sleep. When I let my thoughts wander like you do when you are going to sleep, the SI thoughts pop up. I can still fall asleep though so it's not a big deal, just annoying.
• Have I been here before? What did I do to deal with it? How did I feel then?
  
  Over and over and over... If it's not very intense, I try to just not get stuck on the thoughts, let them slide by. If it's stronger, I find something to occupy my mind, movies usually works best (taking walks unfortunately don't help). Or I write about what I'm feeling. I may also tell my husband that I'm struggling. Sometimes I feel better. Expressing myself helps the most.
  
  In the beginning of the year, I had a difficult time during a med adjustment, then I made a "movie" in my head and ran it at least ten times a day for three weeks... visualizing very clearly every little step I would have to go through if I were to act on my impulses, from walking 30 minutes in the cold rain to buy tools to the humiliation of getting stitches and a psych eval... I felt horribly trapped, but it did stop me from doing anything.
• What I have done to ease this discomfort so far? What else can I do that won't hurt me?
  
  Just talking about today, I'm writing this. My husband is at home so I'm taking some comfort in that, I rarely hurt myself if he is around (not so much because I get upset if he leaves, but because I don't want him to see it happening). I'm going about my day as usual.
• How do I feel right now?
  
  Frustrated. Angry. Not anxious. Angry that it doesn't seem to matter that I don't hurt myself, I still have the thoughts in my head, many times a day.
• How will I feel when I am hurting myself?
  
  It would be such a relief to let go.
• How will I feel after hurting myself? How will I feel tomorrow morning?
  
  I would be ambivalent. On one hand, I would feel a release as long as the wound was stinging. On the other hand, I would feel guilty because it would make my husband worry.
• Can I avoid this stressor, or deal with it better in the future?
  
  I don't know.
  
  Obviously, if simple things like going to the supermarket make me want to hurt myself, I can't very well avoid it, I would become a recluse (apart from that this would be unhealthy, it would kill me through boredom). And I have absolutely no idea how to not get SI thoughts when I'm tired or overwhelmed, and many times for no obvious reason.
  
  While I haven't hurt myself even slightly in something like 10 months, and not seriously in what must be over 5 years, I'm basically white-knuckling it.
  
  My main motivation is that I don't want to worry my family. For me that is a valid point, I don't think that every change I make has to be for me alone. But I notice while writing that there is some resentment in me, I don't like other people deciding what I can do with my body, even if their intentions are good. Maybe some leftovers from other eras of my life when I didn't have much control, I don't know.
• Do I need to hurt myself?
  
  I'm not going to, it would be too messy. I'm sad about that decision though.

Hey,

Just wanted to say that you're doing pretty darn well having all this time si free, especially as you are "white knuckling" it. Maybe thats what works for you, but i hear its tiring and requires a ton load of effort.

Juat wanted to pick out this

. I have absolutely no idea how to not get SI thoughts when I'm tired or overwhelmed, and many times for no obvious reason.

I don't know if it's possible to stop thoughts from coming in, maybe all we have control over is how we respond to them.

Hope the urge has passed now

Scarlett_ wrote:Hey,

Just wanted to say that you're doing pretty darn well having all this time si free, especially as you are "white knuckling" it. Maybe thats what works for you, but i hear its tiring and requires a ton load of effort.

I don't know if that is what works for me, but it's what I have right now.

Scarlett_ wrote:Juat wanted to pick out this

. I have absolutely no idea how to not get SI thoughts when I'm tired or overwhelmed, and many times for no obvious reason.

I don't know if it's possible to stop thoughts from coming in, maybe all we have control over is how we respond to them.

I'm sure you are right, after all the production of thoughts is clearly not always on a conscious level. It's a pipe dream.

Scarlett_ wrote:Hope the urge has passed now

Unfortunately not. I seem to be in one of those episodes when I have strong urges several times a day for weeks. Maybe it has been a month, I haven't counted. This is common for me. Then I have periods where urges are weaker or practically non-existant. I suppose this is one reason I sometimes become discouraged - there is other stuff in my life that has improved a lot, like no SU thoughts at all for a year or something (I had them frequently all my adult life), mood swings are under much better control and anxiety is way down - but the SI urges are as visual as ever.

Last night I had three drinks to dull the feelings. This is not characteristic of me. When I'm "normal", I have maybe a glass of wine per week. When I'm low, I rarely drink at all. It's when I'm hypomanic that I can down a bottle of champagne and not give a damn, I'm a happy drunk. But I decided today to not drink instead of SI, I don't want to become a person who tries to drown her sorrows. It's an easy decision, it doesn't feel like deprivation. Strange how in contrast not hurting myself feels like heavy deprivation.

Thank you a lot for your thoughtful response

. It's a pipe dream

I'd love a pipe dream

. Strange how in contrast not hurting myself feels like heavy deprivation.

Yeah. Maybe SI would have more of the impact/consequence that you're looking for? Don't suppose there is anything else that serves the same function as SI?

I also get discouraged by the way urges come and go , but they never stay gone. I just try and accept I'll always want too. Paradoxically the acceptance makes it easier to live with.

Scarlett_ wrote:

. Strange how in contrast not hurting myself feels like heavy deprivation.

Yeah. Maybe SI would have more of the impact/consequence that you're looking for? Don't suppose there is anything else that serves the same function as SI?

It's almost funny how I still after all this time don't know exactly how things work. I'm not all that much into pain actually, squeezing ice and so on doesn't satisfy. Red paint just looks like red paint. At this point I wouldn't tell anyone but my husband, since he would find out anyway, so the communicative value would be low (we are not fighting so it would not be aimed at him). Unless I would overdo it and need medical attention, which would be very stupid but not the first time - but I don't think I need any extra psychiatric treatment at the moment, I'm not comfortable but not in actual crisis, so it would just be a physical thing. It's not punishment, or sexual. The only thing I can come up with that resonates a bit is control, controlling by being destructive in a way that puts other people off. Scars that are not pretty.

Sometimes (a lot of the time) I think it becomes harder because I have these weirdo automatic obsessive thoughts that belong to a separate category, but quite often appear at the same time as the SI urges. The obsessive thoughts are strongly violent, but not SI. I can deal easier with those, just let them float through me, since they are quite unrealistic. But they can rub off on each other.

Wish I could talk to someone IRL. I do have a psych nurse with some therapist training now that I like so much. I don't know how well she understands SI, but she did handle our sessions about suicidality excellently last autumn, there has been real lasting change. I should give it a go. But my next appointment is in the middle of September, so I will just need to stay afloat.

Scarlett_ wrote:I also get discouraged by the way urges come and go , but they never stay gone. I just try and accept I'll always want too. Paradoxically the acceptance makes it easier to live with.

Wise words. I'm still fighting, but logically I understand that there is probably no miracle around the corner and I, too, need to be pragmatic.

Thank you for lending me a hand here. Progress is slow sometimes, but writing helps me figure things out.

control, controlling by being destructive in a way that puts other people off. Scars that are not pretty.

Being in control and in a way pushing people away? Do you feel other people are being a bit close/instrusive atm? Just wondering if you did want distance between yourself and others whether you could have time alone rather than relying on SI to serve that function....I may be well off the mark there!

I can deal easier with those, just let them float through me, since they are quite unrealistic.

Thats really skillful

Glad writing helps. Sounds like talking to the psych nurse was also really helpful. Don't suppose you could bring the appt forward? I reckon if she managed thr su stuff well then the si stuff won't faze her.

Scarlett_ wrote:

control, controlling by being destructive in a way that puts other people off. Scars that are not pretty.

Being in control and in a way pushing people away? Do you feel other people are being a bit close/instrusive atm? Just wondering if you did want distance between yourself and others whether you could have time alone rather than relying on SI to serve that function....I may be well off the mark there!

It's summer... all the "normal" people want to meet. While I have become better at pacing myself, and my friends and family are amazing at understanding that I can't join everything - they really are - it's still a situation that throws me.

That's the immediate stuff. Then there is old stuff that I often think "oh I'm so over that " but our life history is never totally eradicated, is it? I can feel like others own me and I have to behave, and there's this opposite caged animal reaction. But I'm pretty good at keeping calm on the surface. My husband knows a lot about me, we have been together for 16 years and are very close. I try to not show scars around other people, well of course mental health people have known but I don't consider them friends but professionals, so it doesn't feel personal. I'm not actually pushing people away in real life through the SI. Though it feels as if I could, a magical power. If I really do want to distance myself from someone or something I can do it through communication, I'm not shy. I don't know why I would need the possibility to scare/unease them when I don't use it anyway. How silly it all seems.

Scarlett_ wrote:

I can deal easier with those, just let them float through me, since they are quite unrealistic.

Thats really skillful

Thank you. I had to learn it myself. I sadly never had any useful feedback from therapists or doctors, it seems they often interpreted the thoughts as borderline psychotic. But after quite a bit of online digging I read about Pure O, obsessive thoughts. Mine don't fit exactly the most common patterns as to content, but they seem to behave pretty much in the same way. I don't have actual OCD, the thoughts only come now and then, but a couple of techniques seem to help, to let them float through me, or to imagine a square screen in front of me and let the thoughts "live" in the upper left corner while letting the "normal" thoughts have the rest of the screen. Just knowing that I'm not going to act on it and that it won't make me completely crazy helps also helps a lot, of course. It used to really scare me to have a horror movie in my head and not understand it.

Scarlett_ wrote:Glad writing helps. Sounds like talking to the psych nurse was also really helpful. Don't suppose you could bring the appt forward? I reckon if she managed thr su stuff well then the si stuff won't faze her.

Writing helps a lot! I do feel much better today, less confused.

My psych nurse is away on a long holiday, as I understood it. I do have a good pdoc (suddenly I'm blessed with very helpful helpers ) in case of emergency, but this is not really an emergency, just stuff to be talked about.

Thank you Scarlett for reading all my ramblings.

No worries I was wondering about pure o, using what sounds like mindfulness to manage those thoughts is wicked. Lives can be ruined with those types of thoughts.

. but our life history is never totally eradicated, is it? I can feel like others own me and I have to behave, and there's this opposite caged animal reaction.

So easy to respond on some level to these old feelings... Even though we have the skills to manage similar situations. Doesn't seem silly, like you said we can't eradicate our past history. Would be nice though!

Scarlett_ wrote:

. but our life history is never totally eradicated, is it? I can feel like others own me and I have to behave, and there's this opposite caged animal reaction.

So easy to respond on some level to these old feelings... Even though we have the skills to manage similar situations. Doesn't seem silly, like you said we can't eradicate our past history. Would be nice though!

I guess I actually don't want to eradicate my past history. It's useful, even many of the bad parts, they help me not to make certain bad choices and I have had the fortune to on a small scale help some other people not make bad choices. The attached emotions can hurt, but without them I would probably not pay enough attention. I wish I could keep it on a level where it doesn't become so loud it overwhelms, though. Working on it.

Stellaria wrote:

Scarlett_ wrote:

. but our life history is never totally eradicated, is it? I can feel like others own me and I have to behave, and there's this opposite caged animal reaction.

So easy to respond on some level to these old feelings... Even though we have the skills to manage similar situations. Doesn't seem silly, like you said we can't eradicate our past history. Would be nice though!

I guess I actually don't want to eradicate my past history. It's useful, even many of the bad parts, they help me not to make certain bad choices and I have had the fortune to on a small scale help some other people not make bad choices. The attached emotions can hurt, but without them I would probably not pay enough attention. I wish I could keep it on a level where it doesn't become so loud it overwhelms, though. Working on it.

Very good point indeed.