bus

Before You Self-Harm
write down the shadow that's hiding behind the urge. look at it. ask yourself:

i want to show people (my psych in particular) that i am really struggling and i need help. also maybe justifying asking for her help? i feel that unless i SI before i see her again, she'll think im better and wont help me anymore....also if it's bad enough to need to go to the hospital, i like the attention and care i get there. and they tell my psych. and she can see how serious i am.


* how will this situation or feeling change if i hurt myself?

it wont. i always feel like this....but hurting myself will bring some satisfaction.

* what will hurting myself bring to the situation? what will it take away from the situation?

firstly, it will stop me from feeling the need to do something bad to show people that i need help....if i've done it, then i probably wont do it again until after my psych appt on tues. i'll feel like ive done something to justify the help im getting and to make people care about me/see how bad i feel

* how do i want to feel about this in the long run? is hurting myself likely to get me closer to or farther from feeling that way?

i want to stop doing this. stop this overwhelming need to get help and attention from people. hurting myself will help me to get some attention, but won't help me to overcome these thoughts and work through them in a more positive way.

* if hurting myself seems like my best option right now, how long will the relief it brings last? what will i do then?

this question isnt really applicable. the relief that i get from cutting (the bit that has nothing to do with my thoughts) is nice...but very temporary. i'll cut, go to the hospital and come back later....will fill a few hours of my day up.

* what is something i could do now instead of hurting myself? how will it change the situation i'm in? how long will that change last, and what will i do then?

distraction....it wont change the situation but might stop me from cutting.

* how will i feel tomorrow if i hurt myself? how will i feel tomorrow if i do the other thing i came up with?

i just have a feeling that at some point this weekend, i will cut. there is only so long i can distract myself for.

* what do i really want to do right now? how can i best honor the self-protective instinct that has me wanting to self-injure right now?

it;s not really anything to do with self-protection. i need help overcoming the reasons why i want to cut rather than the actual cutting itself. basically i just want to be looked after right now, i want someone to be here and hold me and talk to me and just care about me.


* Why do I feel I need to hurt myself? What has brought me to this point?

i need to hurt myself to show my psych and my tutor at uni (both who i view as a kind of "mother figure") that i need help and i need them to look after me. weekends are hard. cant see or speak to either of them, so cutting is something to show them how i cant cope without them.

* Have I been here before? What did I do to deal with it? How did I feel then?

yes. i cut. and i went to hospital. and i got stitches. and they were nice to me in the hospital. and then when i told my psych/tutor, they were really caring.

* What I have done to ease this discomfort so far? What else can I do that won't hurt me?

nothing really....ive been thinking like this since yesterday. i thought that by posting in here i might get some suggestions? because i dont really want to hurt myself....it's horrible. i just dont know how else to get people to care....

* How do I feel right now?

ashamed. pathetic. this is such a stupid way of dealing with things. why cant i just find the words to tell people how i feel instead of cutting for attention?

* How will I feel when I am hurting myself?

satisfied. calm.

* How will I feel after hurting myself? How will I feel tomorrow morning?

afterwards, ill feel good because ive done something to get attention.

* Can I avoid this stressor, or deal with it better in the future?

i need to talk to my psych about it. im just embarrassed. i need to work on my feelings....why i need a "mother figure" etc etc (see related workshop thread haha)

* Do I need to hurt myself?

No. But I need someone to care about me and look after me.

HI

cutting is something to show them how i cant cope without them.

What reaction are you looking for from them when you show them your cuts? What other ways are there to get that reaction that don't involve hurting yourself? Could you write down how shitty you've been feeling and show it to them? Could you explain to them that you feel it needs to be visibly bad to get attention, so could they try and be equally caring regardless of whether you've cut or not?

Do you think you need increasing amounts of attention? Do you think you need to do increasingly extreme things to get the same amount of attention?

Do you want to cope without them? Ultimately? Would it help to arrange with them that you could make *one* phonecall or email over the weekend, just to tide you over? If they agreed to that would you be willing to stick to that and would it help, or would you then view the time on either side of that call as really bad and feel you can't cope then, thus escalating things? would it help if they set boundaries as to how much attentoin they will give you, and gave you exactly the same attention whether you've hurt yourself or not? Would it help if they gave you more attention when you ask for help in positive ways and take strides to look after yourself?

How can you help yourself right now? How can you care for yourself? Can you have a nice shower or bath? Eat a meal you really enjoy? Treat yourself to a good book? Ask for a hug from your friend? Can you write down a list of things you like about yourself and things you're good at, to try and validate yourself, instead of feeling good when somebody else is nice to you? What specifically is bugging you right now that means that it's shitty and you wish they were there to help? How can you help address that? Would it be good if you could say to them "look, I tried really hard to help myself and this happened?" Would it be good if they were proud of you instead of feeling sorry for you and worried about you?

Here's some threads on boundaries and manipulative behaviour:
http://buslist.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=87519
http://buslist.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=84380

Thank you

Smeagol wrote:
What reaction are you looking for from them when you show them your cuts? What other ways are there to get that reaction that don't involve hurting yourself? Could you write down how shitty you've been feeling and show it to them? Could you explain to them that you feel it needs to be visibly bad to get attention, so could they try and be equally caring regardless of whether you've cut or not?

I guess I just want them to make it all better. And by showing something physical, it's easier to show that I need some help. I feel that if I havent cut, they wont see how bad I'm feeling. I find it very very hard to articulate exactly how I am feeling...and I feel that what I say doesnt explain how bad I'm feeling; I cant make it sound bad "enough" if you know what I mean? I am going to talk to my psych about this on Tuesday, if I can be brave enough :S ....i just dont want her to think that I'm just a big attention seeker.

Smeagol wrote:Do you think you need increasing amounts of attention? Do you think you need to do increasingly extreme things to get the same amount of attention?

In a word, yes. If i get attention for something relatively "little", like when I started cutting again back in November time and they were basically just scratches really, my tutor was so nice to me, and I felt that the worse my cuts got, the more care and attention I would get.

Smeagol wrote:Do you want to cope without them? Ultimately? Would it help to arrange with them that you could make *one* phonecall or email over the weekend, just to tide you over? If they agreed to that would you be willing to stick to that and would it help, or would you then view the time on either side of that call as really bad and feel you can't cope then, thus escalating things? would it help if they set boundaries as to how much attentoin they will give you, and gave you exactly the same attention whether you've hurt yourself or not? Would it help if they gave you more attention when you ask for help in positive ways and take strides to look after yourself?

I really really really want to be able to live my life without being so dependent on one or two people. And one phone call/email sounds like a good idea...although I'm not sure whether my psych would agree....I'll wait and see what she suggests on Tuesday. And yes, if I got the same level of care whether I'd cut or not, I probably wouldnt cut as often/as badly. If people show me that they still care as much if I do positive things, then maybe I would be more inclined to do them. I'm just frightened that if i start to do good things for myself, they'll think I'm getting better, and wont need to care as much.

Smeagol wrote:How can you help yourself right now? How can you care for yourself? Can you have a nice shower or bath? Eat a meal you really enjoy? Treat yourself to a good book? Ask for a hug from your friend? Can you write down a list of things you like about yourself and things you're good at, to try and validate yourself, instead of feeling good when somebody else is nice to you?

I just cleaned my room. That made me feel a bit better. My psych actually told me to write a list of positive things for next session, so I'll have a go at that in a bit.

Smeagol wrote: What specifically is bugging you right now that means that it's shitty and you wish they were there to help? How can you help address that? Would it be good if you could say to them "look, I tried really hard to help myself and this happened?" Would it be good if they were proud of you instead of feeling sorry for you and worried about you?

I just feel a bit lonely...and that no one cares. And that no one is here to look after me. And that I cant stop being such a crazy attention seeking mentalist. Maybe I'll say to my psych next session that I am trying to help myself, and see if she responds positively (that means, she tells me I'm doing really well and that she cares). Its worth a shot right?

Smeagol wrote:Here's some threads on boundaries and manipulative behaviour:
http://buslist.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=87519
http://buslist.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=84380

Thanks for that, will have a read.

pluginbaby wrote: I guess I just want them to make it all better.

They can't do that...

doesnt explain how bad I'm feeling; I cant make it sound bad "enough" if you know what I mean?

Yeah. I know.

enough :S ....i just dont want her to think that I'm just a big attention seeker.

You are an attention seeker, and you'll probably get quite a way with her by admitting that you do things for attention and saying that you'd like to work on ways of getting what you want without being manipulative, as well as on making it so don't need so much attention in the first place. I know "attention seeker" is a horrible label people use, but it doesn't mean that there aren't problems which don't need fixing, and your psych should know that.

I really really really want to be able to live my life without being so dependent on one or two people. And one phone call/email sounds like a good idea...although I'm not sure whether my psych would agree....I'll wait and see what she suggests on Tuesday. And yes, if I got the same level of care whether I'd cut or not, I probably wouldnt cut as often/as badly. If people show me that they still care as much if I do positive things, then maybe I would be more inclined to do them.

Do you think you could ask them to do that? I'm pretty sure that they do care and they would be more than happy to reward positive behaviours if you ask them. And you coming out and outright asking makes them more likely to agree. If you keep on being manipulative then they might give up and feel what they do makes no difference. Asking them to give you attention when you do positive things shows that you're really engaged in trying to change, and it helps them. I know that it gets really frustrating for people when they don't know how to help or don't feel that what they do makes any difference.

I'm just frightened that if i start to do good things for myself, they'll think I'm getting better, and wont need to care as much.

How about them caring about you because they like you. Wouldn't it be nicer to be cared for because you're a great person than because they feel sorry for you and think you'll fall apart? Would that be better for your self esteem? When you start to do good things for yourself you *are* getting better. That's a good thing. But your psych at least should know that change takes time, so I doubt she'd just abandon you and say "oh you're fine now". She'll probably stick with you until you've reached the point where you don't need her attention so much, until you're happy with healthy attention rather than needing protecting and looking after.

But you know what, I'd talk to her about that. Say, you're starting to see things you can do, but you're afraid. It's a problem for you. It's impeding your recovery. She's there precisely to help you figure out how to handle those problems.

I just cleaned my room. That made me feel a bit better. My psych actually told me to write a list of positive things for next session, so I'll have a go at that in a bit.

Go you! I'd really like to clena my room, but I don't have time.

I just feel a bit lonely...and that no one cares. And that no one is here to look after me. And that I cant stop being such a crazy attention seeking mentalist. Maybe I'll say to my psych next session that I am trying to help myself, and see if she responds positively (that means, she tells me I'm doing really well and that she cares). Its worth a shot right?

Definitely worth a shot. Definitely. But if you don't feel she responds as positively, ask her. Say "Mmm, I know you've said that's great, but I can't help but feel that you only care when I hurt myself". Raise it as a problem. It isn't a test of her that she can pass or fail. People can't mindread, so if you don't get the response you were hoping for, it's worth checking with that person as to why you didn't get that response. In this case, if she doesn't seem to be as overtly caring, check that she does still care.

Being lonely sucks. Totally. could you ask your psych or t to write you an email or letter that you could keep to look at and use to remind yourself that they care? Can you summon up memories of times when you did feel cared for? My bf got me a stuffed toy for xmas, and I sometimes have to use it to remind myself that he cares even when he's not around. You can stop being crazy. You're stopping now, by posting here and on workshop and by making plans for how you're going to do things differently. That's the first and biggest step. You won't get to your goals instantly, but change is happening. Be proud of yourself for that.

Hi. I hope it's okay for me to reply here.

I sympathise a lot with what you have said, and a lot of it seems very familiar- particularly what you have said about people not knowing how bad things are unless you huurt yourself. I know that for a very long time I was worried that if I stopped hurting myself then people would think that I was less unhappy, and they wouldn't try and halp me anymore, and they wouldn't believe me. That's a really tough thing to deal with, because it leaves you very stuck- constantly trying to prove something to other people. It might be worth asking yourself why you need to prove it to them. Is it because you think they wont believe you or because you wont believe you?

I don't think your psych will think of you as just another attention seeker. I think she will see the truth- that you are trying to communicate to her how bad things are. If you think about it though, hurting yourself wont necessarily show her that. You actually need to talk to her and learn how to describe what you are feeling. That's a very hard thing to do, and there's no shame in not being able to do it (I still totally suck at it, to be honest).

One of the things that I found helpful initially was to write down what I was feeling when it was happening, to write how I felt, what I wanted to do to myself, why wanted to do it- everything- and then give it to me then T when I saw her. That way I didn't need to remember and explain- and I am much more articulate in writing than in person, so that was another good thing. Might that be something that you sould try? It's worth talking about it with your psyche first so that she asks you for what you have written, and you can't get away with being too embarassed to show her.

I think at the beginning what it important is finding small ways to start to communicate.

I hope nothing that i have written has upset or annoyed you. Please take care of yourself.

tatty