Visual thoughts? **SI, SU, violence**

[Stellaria]

****SI, SU, violence in thread****





This is maybe a little weird, I haven't seen anything written about it (except me posting about it ) But maybe someone else out there can relate?

Now that I'm conciously trying to stop SI, I take more notice of when and how urges appear. What is easily the most difficult for me to deal with are thoughts that are not articulated. Not like "I am bad I need to be punished" or "I might as well go cut since I'm such a failure anyway" - I have those too, but I can talk back to them. But especially when I'm stressed up, very upset or tired, I get quick but strong visuals of myself getting hurt in various gruesome ways. There is no story line, just odd scenes like very short excerpts of a movie. I don't quite want to call it hallucinations, since I am aware that it's just thoughts in my head. But they are incredibly upsetting. It's very tempting to resort to SI, since the numbness it brings temporarily stops these thoughts.

One pdoc said she had encountered something like this in other PTSD cases, where she said she thought the scary thoughts could be things that you had not actually experienced, but that you had feared or imagined happen during a traumatic event. I can't quite evaluate how relevant this idea is. It's at least obvious that a lot of what I "see" are not things that ever happened.

Sometimes I clearly envision a new SI wound, and then it becomes very hard for me to not go ahead and make it real.

I don't have a psychosis dx, but I'm on a low dosage of an atypical antipsychotic now (Geodon/Zeldox) which is helping quite a bit with mood swings and calming me down, but obviously not stopping these thoughts.

Even if people can't totally relate, I would appreciate any thoughts.

(I'm not bad off at the moment, but this stuff doesn't seem to completely go away...)

Nina

[riot-grrrl]

I have visions like that too (alot), and it's scares me beacause they seem to just "pop up" out of nowhere and are /as you said) more difficult to fight. I didn't really reflect upon them until recently (a year ago maybe), they seemed to be a natural part of me somehow. Then my T. asked me to observed and articulate the thoughts I had before I SIed, and I realised that alot of it were images of me hurting myself in different ways.

I haven't really discussed it with my T. because he had to take som time off...but my guess is that there must be some underlining (subconcious, or whatever you call it), deeply rooted, thoughts that "I deserve to be hurt". I think i've been thinking these thoughts that leads to these scary images so often that i just have to start and *swish* there the visions are. It happens so fast that you don't notice it (for example i get panic attacks as soon as I pass a highschool, i don't notice it but at once i feel useless and ugly, coz that's what i thought for so many years when i had to go to school).

My guess it that visions like these probably take a bit longer time to "defeat" but i think they will away when you're selfesteem goes up and you stop feeling that you deserve to be hurt... I'm hoping that working with my articulated thoughts in the end will make the visions go away...

hope I made any sense, i'm too tired right now to think in english...

take care
magda

[Christina]

I am exactly the same way. It disturbs me greatly. Sometimes I can't even sleep because I know that as soon as I close my eyes, I'm going to see myself getting hurt again. So a lot of times I can't sleep until I'm so tired I'm about to drop because if my mind starts to relax...BAM....it's not going to go in a good direction.
It also triggers me from time to time and I learned to just hate them. I don't know what causes them either, but it does help to know that I'm not the only one who has them. Up until a few years ago, I never heard of others having these sort of images, but as I understand it, they're fairly common in many SIers.
I also get these violent flashes and images when I'm out, for example, car crashes and things.
The suddenness and lack of control over them is what scares me the most about these images popping up. Also the way they make me feel, so vulnerable and open; and the feeling that I'm not safe anywhere. That can often enough lead to feelings of desperation, and finally, to more cuts.



Take care,

~C

[Stellaria]

Thank you so much, Magda and Christina! What you describe sounds very much like what I experience. I don't know why it helps to know that I'm not the only one, but it does.

I also have this thing of not wanting to go to sleep due to this. If I get upset or tense for some reason, I have to keep busy busy busy to not let these thoughts in, and dread going to bed since when I lie down, the images flood my head. Another thing I have found is that relaxation techniques that involve visualisation is not something I deal with well. Even if I try to follow instructions, my mind soon takes off on its own. Say you're told to see yourself resting in a field of pretty flowers - in a split second I turn that scene into something really nasty.

The other day, I brought it up with my T. Well, we have talked about it before but not in so much detail (I'm a little shy about mentioning it to people, both because it scares me to think about it, and because most of those I did tell didn't seem to understand.) It went ok, though. I can see that there is maybe a link to how I often react to my own weakness - when I get scared, sad or lost, I tend to become very harsh with myself, tell myself I'm stupid, ridiculous, whiny, etc. I thought a little about why exactly these images scare me, one reason is that feeling of not being in full control of your mind, and another is that I'm afraid of them somehow becoming true. When I told that to my T, he said that considering my history of SI, I sometimes do make them come true. I had not looked at it that way, but he is right. My SI and the images feed off each other in a vicious circle (not that the SI originally caused it because I had it for ages, but SI adds on to it.)

Anyway, I'm already dealing a little better with it than a year ago, so I'm feeling hopeful right now. In the past couple of days, I have tried to think of the images as just another sign of stress, like feeling a knot in the stomach or a lump in the throat. This seems to help a little to not get drawn into it.

Nina

[plantt]

Sometimes I clearly envision a new SI wound, and then it becomes very hard for me to not go ahead and make it real.

i do that a lot.
on occasion the other happens too... just random injuries... but mostly it's related to si...

[riot-grrrl]

Stellaria said:

Another thing I have found is that relaxation techniques that involve visualisation is not something I deal with well. Even if I try to follow instructions, my mind soon takes off on its own. Say you're told to see yourself resting in a field of pretty flowers - in a split second I turn that scene into something really nasty.

That's exactly what happens to me. I was given a instruction tape where the speaker told you to think about your happiest memories and realising how beatiful life is...and all that came up were my saddest ones. And that of course tensed me up and ruined all the relaxing exercises I'd done before.
So I prefer exercises where you just focus on how your muscles tense and relax, and don't think about anything else.

Christina wrote:

It disturbs me greatly. Sometimes I can't even sleep because I know that as soon as I close my eyes, I'm going to see myself getting hurt again. So a lot of times I can't sleep until I'm so tired I'm about to drop because if my mind starts to relax...BAM....it's not going to go in a good direction.

It's weird that despite reading all the posts on BUS, I still thought I was the only one being afraid of closing my eyes when I go to sleep.
I try to focus on something like a spot on the wall, really studying it, until I get so tired that I can't keep my eyes open.

Take care
magda[/quote]

[Christina]

It's weird that despite reading all the posts on BUS, I still thought I was the only one being afraid of closing my eyes when I go to sleep.
I try to focus on something like a spot on the wall, really studying it, until I get so tired that I can't keep my eyes open.

I usually have to occupy my mind until I am pretty much exhausted otherwise my thoughts or images will come back. Needless to say, I don't ever feel very rested during those times.
Take care,

~Christina

[darwi]

I normally have the violent thoughts when I want to SI but can't. If I'm in public or whatever and I feel the need to hurt myself, but can't, images of cutting or whatever fill my mind whether I want them to or not. Or I'll be driving down the road and just want to pull into oncoming traffic to see what would happen. Thankfully my good sense stops me, but I can't stop thinking about it.
At night I have to spend a couple of hours thinking of my 'happy place/life' before I can go to sleep. I have a whole fake world and life that helps me sleep so the violent thoughts don't come in. It is weird, but it gets me through the night normally. Anything to disassociate from my reality.

[real]

Hi everyone. This is my first post.

I was very attracted to replying to your posts in this thread because I have very similar experiences. I get images of myself being or already maimed or horribly killed, by others or myself, or sometimes being violent towards others (which I find worse). They can be triggered if I am holding a knife cutting veges, standing at a road waiting to cross, seeing someone I feel scared of, etc., etc., or just come "out of the blue". I can't even imagine a safe place, because there always seems to be some violence there or lurking menace and danger. If I try to do any visualisations they usually get derailed and go off into a horrilbe vision of attack. I know people who have killed themselves and "see" them doing it, even though I didn't in real life. Even if I'm with a "trusted", "safe" person, I fear closing my eyes because I think that they will attack, rape, mutilate &/or kill me, even though I am bigger than many people and "should" be able to defend myself. This even happens when my eyes are open sometimes.

I seem to get them especially violently and malevolently if I feel OK, good or that I am safe. When I pondered this, I felt that the cause of these did not want me to ever feel safe, enjoy life, feel that I am making progress, etc., etc., in other words, to prevent my life. The flip side is that I get them less if I am avoiding "living". I get terribly depressed and think of suicide a lot, but thankfully (I guess) that is not an option due to my spiritual beliefs.

I agree with Nina about fearing being out of control in my mind. I find it all very distressing. I don't talk about it with people very often because I don't want to burden them, freak them out or be rejected. So, I am very relieved to be able to relate to you about it.

By the way, I have found that using self-hypnosis helps me tremendously in getting to sleep. I say, "I am counting down from 100 towards zero, and I always go to sleep before I get to zero.... 100...." then I put phrases in about getting a restful sleep, going to sleep quickly, my mind is relaxing and letting go of worries, etc., etc., between each number as I count down. Hope this helps...

Glad to "meet" you.

All the best,

real

[real]

Oops, I forgot to do the SU warning thing on my post above. Sorry.

real

[Stellaria]

Hi real, have a welcome cow!
(wacko board tradition )

It's fascinating to hear that other people have similar things going on in their heads. I don't know why it's so easy to imagine that I am the only one - maybe it's simply because some things are so hard to talk about. It was the same with SI for me actually, I wasn't hanging out in circles where it was common or talked about so I really did believe for a long time that it was only me doing it...

That thing of seeing myself attack others, it only happened to me a couple of times but totally and utterly freaked me out. I'm usually not an aggressive person, more flight- than fight-oriented. It was about someone who hurt me in the past but I have no idea where he is today, which at least was some relief. If it had been about someone I presently have close to me, I don't know how on earth I would have managed. I'm already scared of myself as it is. (If there is such a thing as having a phobia of yourself, I think I have it...)

In a way, I can also relate to that the "best" way to avoid these thoughts seems to be to not have a life. For example, one of my most triggering situations is to go out with friends and have a good time, or meet new people. It's not that I'm really shy, I like to see people and I'm not afraid to talk, but something in my mind doesn't allow me to enjoy it in peace. But I don't want to give up all social life, so I do this see-saw of meeting people-crashing for days.

Hey, I find counting the safest method to relax! Perhaps because numbers don't make me think of anything special. The method I often use is simply to count from 1-8 and then start over again.

Nice to meet you, too.

Nina

[HexMachina]

It feels good to see I'm not the only one having those vivid violent flashes. When they occur, I appear to be loosing any distance towards myself.
I can't think, I can't focus, I can't concentrate. They just hit me, out of the blue and they just won't leave my mind.

A clear image of a fresh wound, a car running over me... I have to fight to keep my head straight, I'm afraid I'll loose control over those episodes, like my head has a will on it's own.

It is quite scary. And at the same time, i'm so out of my self, I don't even know if I feel scared or not. It's a trance like feeling, like I'm on another plan of reality... Isolated. Alone. Naked and disarmed.

I try doing stuff that really takes my mind away, like walking to no particular place or playing a game or writing what I'm feeling. I'm still very far from being able to cope, but I try some new tricks and hopefully I'll find out something that works for me.

Just to let you know you are not alone and I care.

Luv.

Hex.

[real]

Hi all,

After my BUS session yesterday, I felt very down and despairing, so I went to the park (more info in BUS section under "Hi I'm new" if anyone is interested).

I realised that all thoughts and fears of me being attacked, harmed or killed, or being aggressive towards other people are, or seem to me to be, really impulses to harm a particular part or parts of myself. That is, to kill, harm &/or get rid of the part(s) that want love, or are considered "weak", maybe the hateful parts even, etc., etc., by other aspects/levels (or whatever) within me.

Just thoughts about it....

kind regards

real

[ginger]

possible trigger**SI







I have never read anyone else desccribing this before. I genuinely thought that it was just me. I can't walk by anything that could be considered a *tool* and not vividly imagine it's use against myself and how good that would make me feel. It has been such an integral part of myself for so long that I haven't thought on it before except for when it is happening.

What has always completely freaked me out are the intense images of me performing violent acts against others. They are much more rare than the self inflicted ones, but they are more disturbing by far. They seem to be completely random and without provocation. *I end up biting my hand as hard as I can to make it go away.*

As far as the sleep thing goes, I have a very difficult time getting to sleep as that is my usual self beratement time. Usually how I screw up social situations. But once I am asleep, I could and will sleep for days if it weren't for my honey to wake me up.

Thank you very much for this thread.

ginger

[real]

Hi Ginger,

I'm glad to see that you responded to this thread, but sorry to hear what you experience. I think that it is an important issue/thread & look at it each time I log on to see if anyone has added to it.

You said: "I can't walk by anything that could be considered a *tool* and not vividly imagine it's use against myself ..."

and:

"What has always completely freaked me out are the intense images of me performing violent acts against others. They are much more rare than the self inflicted ones, but they are more disturbing by far. They seem to be completely random and without provocation."

These are the same for me.

Also, you said: "*I end up biting my hand as hard as I can to make it go away.*

OUCH!!!!!! I hope you can find a less painful way to deal with it.

All the best,

real

[real]

Hi all,

I have thought a lot about this thread, & it has brought up a lot of emotional stuff for me.

Further to what I wrote yesterday, I get images of being maimed, mutilated &/or killed by virtually anything in my environment; eg. cars going out of control, branches or other things falling on me, etc., etc., or even bizarre things like circular saw blades coming out of nowhere, or axes attacking me while I sit resting against a tree or something.

I think that I feel afraid of the world, & perceive that it is a dangerous, angry, violent, attacking place, not just the people in it. Further, some malign part of my mind seems intent on torturing me with such images.

When I get images of me being violent, which I find particularly distressing, I think that it is related to my own denied, disowned anger about the things that have happened to me being used in a defensive manner, to ward off any attack from my environment, including people.

This stuff reminds me of some therapy a therapist friend told me about. She had a female client who had recently had a baby & was extremely distressed about getting images & impulses to harm &/or kill the baby. After a lot of therapy, the woman realised that she hated the "weak, vulnerable", etc., parts of herself & wanted to kill, maim or tear them out of herself. She had then transferred these "desires" towards her baby. Once she had worded through this, she let go of her desires to harm her baby or the vulnerable parts of herself.

Just some thoughts about these things....

real

[Stellaria]

even bizarre things like circular saw blades coming out of nowhere, or axes attacking me while I sit resting against a tree or something.

Ouch. That happens to me. Some very unreal things, and I can see that they are complete fantasy, but they still scare me.

It's funny, looking back at what I posted before, I can see that it happened again. I socialized a lot during the past weekend, no conflicts or anything bad, but by Monday morning I was seeing things so intensely that I freaked. I also saw myself hurting a couple of people close to me. That hasn't happened before and I feel horrible about it and too afraid to tell anyone IRL.

It sounds reasonable that it is linked to anger. I find it hard to not just express anger, but to at all get angry with other people than myself.

Nina

[real]

I get images nearly all day every day of myself being mutilated or killed by someone or something, or seeing objects & then "seeing" myself mutilate or kill myself with it. I find it very hard to cope with. They seem to come unbidden.

Any good thoughts about myself, other people, achievements, or anything, seem to bring them on &/or exacerbate it. So, I fear feeling good about anything because it will just bring on the images. Sometimes I get flooded with images & fear that I will go mad. But I just shut down my feelings & go on living. Trying to fight it just seems to make it worse, as does going with it & seeing where it takes me, as someone suggested years ago. Damn, I feel like a loony writing that these things happen to me.

However, paradoxically (or perversely?), it seems good to talk about it here. Perhaps it will help me to let go of them to some extent.

I hope this thread helps some people to vent.

I'm so glad that I found the BUS site. I look forward to moving house & getting connected to the internet in a few weeks so that I can spend time on BUS without feeling rushed & fearing people looking over my shoulder at the library. I guess I feel a lot of shame about experiencing this stuff.

real

[Stellaria]

real,
It's nice to hear you are getting your own net connection soon. Good luck on moving house!

At least for me, the fact that I find some of the things that go on in my head difficult to talk about also makes them harder to deal with. That sounds a bit oversimplified, doesn't it? But I still think that is an important aspect, and to be able to vent here does help a little. Although the mere thought of telling my T details about what has been going through my head lately has me shaking, I will try to do that, too.

[real]

Hi Nina,

Glad to hear from you & be able to "talk" about this stuff with you & others. I appreciate your words & authenticity.

Last night, after nearly being kicked out of the library, I thought a lot about this thread. I felt very anxious & ashamed about what I had written, which showed me very strongly how much these images affect me & how I feel about them. I have talked about them with my T, but it seemed vastly more threatening to air this issue for what felt like "the whole world" to see. I felt terribly exposed & vulnerable, & still do. I have mentioned them to several people who I thought I could trust, but they don't seem to want to see me any more.

Yesterday was my last therapy session, until I can find another therapist after moving, so I might be more dependent on BUS for a while, which feels scarey.

I am so tired of feeling frightened all the time. I don't feel safe anywhere. How can I be or feel safe when it is my own mind that tortures me, and is more threatening and attacking than anything in my middle class, relatively safe world is likely to be? Despite this supposed external safety, I constantly expect to be attacked, from outside or within.

I feel quite upset, anxious & despairing as I'm writing about this stuff, & am afraid that I might start crying in front of people here in the library or that they might see what I'm writing & think that I'm a freak.

In a way, it does feel .... um, "good" doesn't feel like the right word. It does feel beneficial (what a bland word) to express my "stuff" here, as though I am emptying a poisoned wound, which I guess I am. Hopefully I will be able to cleanse & heal it too, one day, and then have a bit of a life.

real