Dissociation in Therapy?

[cellette]

I always get really stuck in T - I have so much I would like to say, and I can even picture in my head how I can say it, but when I get there, I shut down - my mind goes blank and I feel numb.

My main problem, though, is that I also dissociate a lot in T - my T and I have been able to work out that there seem to be (at least ) 3 main states that I go into .............

1. the spacey one where time slows down and everything feels really distant. like I am looking through a fog that is closing in around me

2. then there's the frozen state where I literally can't move - I can be in the middle of doing something and I will find that I have frozen (physically) - I think a variation of this is also where I want to say something but something stops me from actually speaking - like an invisible force

3. and finally, the last state seems to be the panic state where I flood my thoughts with random and insanely fast thoughts (or half thoughts - they're going so fast that I can't even finish thinking them before the nest one has happened and so on) - this disrupts my thoughts and I can't concentrate - on what anyone is saying to me or on what I am even thinking


I have read the threads on dissociation here, but, my problem (apart from the fact that I do this and that is can be so difficult to fight it when it is happening ) is how do you deal with it or bring yourself out of it when it happens in T? How do you not only stop it from happening in T, but how you bring yourself out of it once it's happened? What techniques do you find useful?

Any ideas?

[katja]

its ok to just freeze at difficult times. Sometimes I have really hard times talking about stuff when its a tricky subject. Why not just sit there being quiet if you feel comfortable that way? maybe pressuring yourself to be 'with it' is making you worse. If theres something you feel you really need to talk about why not write it down before you go to therapy? It could help your mind me a little clearer. My psychologist always gave me some useful tips for stopping spacing out. She said all you need to do is focus on something physical and describe it to yourself, keep hold of it so you know you are still where you thought you were. She suggested this object to be something sentimental? I've not really tried it but it might work? Good luck!

[-Kel-]

how about riting down the stuff u wana say.. just the basics... so then yr T can ask quaetions. thats what i had to do at first.. coz it was to scary to say the things out loud.

[heartonmysleave]

writing a diary and showing it to your therapist could help? writing down what I'm thinking and feeling helps me.

[collide]

hmmm.....i do that too, but not to the extent...my dissociation happens when i can't deal with things and then i just drift away to another place in my mind...my therapist is used to me doing that...she can tell right away when i stop talking and there is this big gap...so she tries to get me back to reality...tries to ask me what is going on? or if there's something bothering me...sometimes i tell her there isn't anything...or if there is, she can't help me...it's hard...usually when she introduces a different topic, i am able to talk and get out of that dissociation thing...but again, i am talking about a different topic....so i don't know if this helps....but at least i am not stuck in the dissociative state, even though i can't really talk about what it is...i am talking about other things...then find some relief in just talking...

[cellette]

Thanks Katja, -Kel-, heartonmysleave & collide for your replies.

I find writing things out for my T to read useful - I usually email things to her or I bring it with me to the session. I just wish I could find the words to speak aloud to her and not shut down all the time. I mean, I know at least writing things down for her is still keeping the communication open (as she is always reminding me), but I just wish that I could speak comfortably and not feel so self-conscious all the time.

collide - your description of what you do in T is like what happens to me .......... it was reassuring (in one way ) to know it happens to others as well in T. Your "drifting away" description sounds very similar to my spacey state - it is just like "drifting away" - sometimes it happens quite quickly (and I am in the stae before I even know it) but other times it feels just like I fade away and there is a big chasm and and I don't know how to reconnect again and get to the other side where my T is.

My T can, on the whole, recognise when it's happening and we're trying to learn identify the different ones (I think because each state is different and therefore each seems to have their own different trigger points?). Like you said, it sometimes helps when she moves away from the topic for a bit and I can often come back to it later and describe what happened ........... but I get so frustrated with myself because I keep thinking that it is something that I need to learn to get myself out of rather than rely on a distraction method .......... because then it feels like all we'll ever be doing is always just side-stepping things ........ & it takes up so much time in T. Does this make sense?

[Nona]

Thanks for this thread cellette, this is a huge problem for me. I dissociate in therapy to the point where I literally become struck dumb.

My T is very good and usually notices when I'm offski but it's hard when you're struck dumb and can't get anything across which leads to a lot of frustration for me etc. What she normally does to help me come back is to give me her hand and to make sure that I can feel it and to keep checking that I can still feel her hand and stuff. That helps cus when I'm drifting, her checking reminds me that she's there and I'm not (so to speak; apologies if this is garbage, I'm very tired!) We tried breathing exercises once but that totally freaked me out (which reminds me, I need to get to the bottom of that one)

Yes, I understand abotu it taking up so much time. I've had weeks where I've had to go in and 'fess up that I pretty much don't remember the session before. Whilst she's very happy to fill me in, I know that it's not good and wastes time etc. Sometimes I wonder if I will ever get through this, so I relate to your side stepping too.

Good luck cellette and take care

[cellette]

What she normally does to help me come back is to give me her hand and to make sure that I can feel it and to keep checking that I can still feel her hand and stuff. That helps cus when I'm drifting, her checking reminds me that she's there and I'm not (so to speak; apologies if this is garbage, I'm very tired!) We tried breathing exercises once but that totally freaked me out (which reminds me, I need to get to the bottom of that one)

Thanks Nona - it's nice to know that other people can relate to what I'm describing. I think it's great that your T is able to do this to help you ground yourself when you dissociate. Out of interest, what sort of breathing exercises dd she try with you?


I have wondered before about whether physical contact would help ground me ......... but I've been to scared to ask (& worried that it would over-step the boundaries - I know some counsellors are okay with it but I also know that other's aren't, and I just assume she isn't because she hasn't offered it as a possibility......... I know I haven't asked either *shrugs*.

I have also contemplated whether I could use her cat as a grounding technique (I have wondered whether the contact of having it on my lap and patting it would help ........... to explain, I love animals and I always have to dislodge her cat from where it's settled itself my lap as I'm waiting for her to come call me in (so it's not like I would be forcing it to stay if it didn't want to ) but again, I just think that using distractions won't necessarily help me to learn how to not dissociate .......... I don't know. I get so tangled up in my thoughts and logic, trying to anticipate the right or wrong thing to do.

I also don't know where the boundaries are for T and I'm too scared to ask to find out in case I am wrong or it's too ludicrous an idea (and yes, this is a common issue for me - being over-sensitive and feeling like I've done the wrong thing, so I guess it's actually all linked ......... again )

[Nona]

Hi again Cellette.

Firstly, forgive me if this doesn't make a jot of sense! I suffer from M.E which is pretty bad at the moment so my brain fog and concentration are terrible

Ok, digression and apologies over lol.

Out of interest, what sort of breathing exercises dd she try with you?

It was getting me to pay attention to the breath, where it went (up my nose, down my lungs etc) and to gradually try to breathe deeper. I apparently hold my breath when I dissociate or take in as little air as I can get away with so it was a way of getting me to pay attention to what was happening, come back to myself and to breathe. I'm not sure why I got freaked out but when I was writing this yesterday it occured to me that I get freaked out when I hear other people breathing heavily so perhaps there is a reason in there why I got so freaked out.

I have wondered before about whether physical contact would help ground me ......... but I've been to scared to ask (& worried that it would over-step the boundaries - I know some counsellors are okay with it but I also know that other's aren't, and I just assume she isn't because she hasn't offered it as a possibility......... I know I haven't asked either *shrugs*.

She introduced it gradually and it wasn't something I asked for. She used to move her chair to come and sit closer to me (and at the side of me so it didn't feel to me like she was scrutinising me which is also very threatening to me) and one day she asked if I would like to hold her hand. I said that I wasn't very sure about that and I was worried that she might get into trouble about that. She said that she wouldn't get into trouble for it but she didn't want to do something to me which I didn't want. In the end I let her and she will do it if things are really bad, both as a way of grounding me and also to let me know that she's there for me and wants to help (cus sometimes I get so lost in my thoughts and try to work everything out by myself that she gets left by the wayside). If she hadn't offered, I'd never have asked her cus I don't do asking very well.

I have also contemplated whether I could use her cat as a grounding technique (I have wondered whether the contact of having it on my lap and patting it would help ........... to explain, I love animals and I always have to dislodge her cat from where it's settled itself my lap as I'm waiting for her to come call me in (so it's not like I would be forcing it to stay if it didn't want to ) but again, I just think that using distractions won't necessarily help me to learn how to not dissociate .......... I don't know. I get so tangled up in my thoughts and logic, trying to anticipate the right or wrong thing to do

The cat sounds like a good plan to me The other thing I use to ground is a lump of rose quartz - rubbing it, noting the shape, texture etc.

It's interesting though; I don't know how not to dissociate either. I guess maybe as I progress through maybe i won't do it anymore. One thing T said to me a few weeks ago was when she was holding my hand was to make sure that whatever happened I could always feel her hand and if it got to the point where I felt like I couldn't feel her hand then I was to do whatever I needed to do to make sure that I could feel her hand again. Maybe you could try that with the cat or another object? Make sure that whatever happens if you feel yourself starting to slide (I say slide cus that's what seems to happen to me) then always make sure that you can feel the cat or other object. It's going to take practice though but these kinds of problems don't just disappear overnight do they? Not after years of being there in the first place.

I also don't know where the boundaries are for T and I'm too scared to ask to find out in case I am wrong or it's too ludicrous an idea (and yes, this is a common issue for me - being over-sensitive and feeling like I've done the wrong thing, so I guess it's actually all linked ......... again )

And how I can relate to that too! Also, for me, if there is the slightest chance that I will be refused or turned down or rejected in some way then I will not ask. It probably is linked I know it is for me. I don't know what to say in response to that to help you through, I know that I was just lucky that my T doesn't mind appropriate physical contact one bit.

Well, this is a huge ramble but if there is anything else I can help you with, feel free to ask! Take what you need and disregard what doesn't fit or work for you.

Take care

Nona

[cellette]

Thanks Nona - it's really helping to be able to share this stuff with someone.

(cus sometimes I get so lost in my thoughts and try to work everything out by myself that she gets left by the wayside)

I can relate to this so much .......... my T often reminds me to not shut her out and leave her behind. By the time I have finish a thought and have processed whether it's "safe' to say it and censored it if need be, I often have by then also already argued what I assume she will say and therefore I end up dismissing saying it all ....... all before I even say anything! And this is just my usual internal thought process ............ she always tells me this isn't fair - that she would at least like the chance to say her arguments herself (even if they will be the same as the ones I have predicted). She says it's no fun if I don't at least let her play the game. ............ which makes sense, I guess

I sometimes think it would be so much easier if I could just network her to me (like 2 computers) so that she can just bypass my firewalls and retrieve what she needs or what I need her to know.

[NobodyToYou]

Wow, how did I miss such a good thread?!
I have experienced all three types of dissociating you were describing during therapy...although they often get mixed up for me and I move from one to the other without warning.
From my experience (it is limited at best), the distraction techniques (talking about something else for a bit), sensory excercises (feeling the floor, the chair, petting the kitty, looking at pictures, listening to sounds), and breathing exercises are often pretty effective. Like someone else mentioned, it has helped me a lot to have a grounding object...I use a rock (obsidion, I think...however it is spelled. volcanic, black, shiny rock). When I start to slip away, I look at my rock, focus on my rock, and make sure that I can feel my rock. Just focusing on it really helps. Yes, it can interrupt the therapy process a bit...but I get a lot less done when I can't get grounded again. I can't really listen if I am not grounded, and talking..well...even harder.
Other things that help...sometimes my T would stop and start talking about unimportant things (books from the library, music, whatever). Sometimes he helped me go through some of the grounding exercises (by the way, some are probably in the long list of coping things...). Sometimes he would just be quiet for a bit and let me recover. Or he would ask me if I was dissociating and I would try to describe it for him. (usually type 1 or 3...obviously can't talk much in type 2.)
But my T was very smart...he paid attention to the things that triggered the dissociation and would find ways to work back around to them later...slowly, so I didn't "go away" again, hopefully. I wouldn't advise you trying to keep track...I found I couldn't. Cause I really can't remember things that happen right before I start dissociating. But your T should be able to do that for you...
One thing I did want to say...sometimes handling the dissociation is NOT a distraction from therapy. For me, it was an important part of therapy. Because the dissociation also happened in other situations and was strongly linked to my SI. So learning other ways to handle it WAS therapy...even though it interrupted whatever we had been talking about. Remember therapy is a process that takes time, and it is ok if you get delayed sometimes...dissociation is your brain's way of trying to take care of you. So if you recognize that you need more care at those upsetting times and start giving it to yourself in other ways, the dissociation should decrease...at least mine did. And it got less powerful...I could stay closer to reality, so it didn't take as long to get "back."

[kate_]

i don't know what some good advice would be...i find that the same thing happens to me. when we start talking about something that's just too hard to face, i dissociate so that i can remain in the conversation but don't have to feel it or really really think about it...

[silent-no-more]

OMG. i am soo glad i found this thread.

Cellette- all the things you describe i do. i like the whole firewall analogy. I was trying to discuss something important with my hubby this morning. I was sooo trying not to say the wrong thing, and anticipate his replys.

so the things you've described are called dissociating? I've been trying to find a way of explaning to my hubby what happens with me sometimes. I looked on lots of dissociation web sites. i must have mis-understood the descriptions, cos i had discounted that as being my problem. the way they described it didn't seem like the way i drift off or go spacy.

I can get a bit obsessive about finding the right name for what i experience. not sure why.